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October 26-31, 2003



(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Fri, 31 Oct 2003


Checking In

Hi Ed, my Chief,


How are things with you ? ! ~ # $ & etc.

What an incredible week ... experiencing feelings ... AHAs

Monday morning I had eleven positions holding, two of them were not consistent. One was a winner and one was a looser. At 7:26 am I sold a looser and at 7:36 I sold the winner.


Since then I've been consistent. On Thursday I had a chance to experience the process at work as I have exited at my stop-loss price at 12:58 pm when thinking "don't do anything till tomorrow."


AHA, what I've noticed is that I just did the right thing first and then thought about it, interesting. For number lovers my account grew 7% this week and I'm on my way to accomplishing my goal ... Feeling of purpose is in my bones, my flash, skin, eyeballs, hands, feet, my whole body.


Experiencing my commitment daily, hourly, all the time, now. Been playing drums and dancing quite a bit this week. My kids and wife talking about feelings, UGH, ... with partners, band members, everyone,


AHAssssssssss all the time and the best is they don't even know it. Going to pick up my kids from school now.

By for now and have a great weekend.


Ed, all this week I've been having this question in my head: How do I joyfully serve lots of people by making them rich and powerful in ten minutes a day? I'm joyfully making a few people money in eight hours a day now. New snapshot for me, you are a proof of possibility for me. Thank you again, words can't describe my feelings for you.


Fri, 31 Oct 2003


Question re Diversification

Mr. Seykota,

I've recently discovered your Trading Tribe site and have thoroughly enjoyed the interchanges. You've mentioned diversification as an important component of
a portfolio.


My question is: what is the diversifying variable with respect to stocks?
With futures, I believe that variable to be the market families - grains, currencies,


With stocks I'd assume it would be the market sectors - defense, semiconductors, etc. Is my assumption correct?


FAQ does not endorse traders or commercial products, or offer instrument-specific trading advice, or recommend specific trading system parameters. See ground rules.

Fri, 31 Oct 2003


Me and Fred, Fred and me, Us ...


It seems that when you refer to "Fred" you are referring to the sub-conscious, or the unconscious.


Defining Fred as everything which is not in the front, but rather in the background and having structural capabilities (handy to drive a car for instance) do you not envision a situation where Fred is cooperating with your conscious decisions in the sense that it is actually helping you out?


An example:

I spent 3 years of my life "learning about the markets". Since I don't work I was able to afford 3 years of chart looking day in and day out. Opened 3 trading accounts and went bust. The first time went bust with USD10K because I simply didn't know anything, the second time because I still didn't know anything (another USD10K) and the third time (another USD10K) because I still didn't know anything. It is a lot more expensive to think that one is ignorant when one really isn't! So here comes Fred!

One day I was watching the market with daily bars on and Fred tells me: "See the slope of a short MA? Buy dips of momentum on a smaller time frame when it slopes up and sell rallies when it slopes down!" "What"? says I? Took me a couple of weeks to build that in an objective manner and write it all down in a manual format. IT WORKS! The longer the time period the HIGHER the chances of anything working! DAY TRADING IS A LIE! OS I spent 2 months following "Freddie" - my method with paper money and registering each and every trade.

There's nothing to know about the markets in terms of "price structure", "cycles", "solar projections", "planet movements", "full moon and new moon" (I was a sucker I know and he knows too but he finds it funny and we laugh in peace!) . Just get a high probability method This thing is ONLY about PROBABILITIES and Fred plays a VERY BIG ROLE in it!

Then I started trading it with USD250,000, R=2%. No guessing, all written down. The first month 31%, the second month 10%, the third month 20% and so on. Am now in my 5th month. I noticed this: One day I swear I knew the market wasn't going to go up BUT I acted according to the rules. The entry was inefficient, the stop was activated and the balance was reduced by 2%. Now this is perfectly normal.


But then I experienced this: One day I wasn't really "unified" as I call it and unaware that I was second guessing the market. Fred, from the background told me this: "You've got to be kidding me. Are you denying my input?" Immediately I became ware of the whole thing ...

So, Fred doesn't have to be an antagonist. It is one such bastard if there are problems running but otherwise he is the best mate one can expect to have.

The problem however is this: this thing of trading is entirely mechanical and there is hardly anything in it which can be used to work with in terms of studying. So I've decided to return to college and start a Master's. If I like it I'll go for a PhD. On the right the two screens for the trading method, on the left the two screens for the word processor. Just lance at the right every now and then and in the mean time read and/or study for the mid terms!

Hip Hip hurrah Fred!

PS: Thanks for your interview in "Market Wizards". I've learned more with you than ...

What you are calling Fred sounds more like your intuition or your inner voice.


Fred conveys information as experience and feeling, such as an ache, a pressure, a longing feeling, etc. - rarely as conscious analytics.


TTP intends to assist Fred and CM to communicate about feelings.  Out of this alchemy, you might receive an AHA, or enhance the intuition you report.


You may have a drama going on with following the advice from your own inner voice ... you might take your experience of this into TTP.


Alignment of Fred and CM might assist you in removing some of the drama from acting on your intuition.




Fred and CM Can Cooperate

to create intuition


Clip: www.garyturchin.com/Welcome.html


Fri, 31 Oct 2003


Thought Processes

Dear Ed,

This year is the first time I've been consistently down. After 8 profitable years I neither planned or expected to do this badly.


The effects on my thought processes have been dramatic, my recent thoughts have focused on getting a job back in the financial sector to get back on track.

The more I've thought about going back to work the worse my trading has become, it feels as if I am sabotaging my trading so I will have to find a job (self fulfilling).

The other day a good friend came round to see me, he asked how things were etc. I replied that I was very well but the trading was not and so I was about to start looking for a job, he could not believe it so he started asking me questions. Following is part of our conversation key me=m, friend=f.

f: so what's gone wrong?

m: dunno, bad trading / decisions I guess maybe I was just lucky before

f: what's this (pointing to my trading system on one of my monitors)

m: that's what I use to determine the trend then I follow a particular strategy to enter the market the same way as the trend and exit when my stop is hit

f: so it doesn't work

m: no most of my losses come from my own decisions I then use the system to see whether I should be in the trade, I see something form an opinion and put the trade on

f: why don't you just use your system

at this point I was embarrassed to admit what I had been doing, a feeling of foolishness and stupidity rolled into 1 and slight dizziness, I had put all my experience into developing this "thing" and yet was selecting when to use it, or even worse ignoring it altogether.

I started talking what came out surprised me, here are some of my comments as I recall them

"I feel guilty everyone keeps on going on about how lucky I am"

"It doesn't feel like work, I need to get a job"

"My system is better at trading than I am"

"I can't follow it now its to late"

"sometimes its too easy, doesn't feel fair"

Thanks for listening Ed, you and your site are truly unique.

Warm Regards,

One use of TTP is to locate and dissolve the feelings that stand between you and following your system.


When a feeling dissolves, it ceases to be your enemy and begins to be your one of your allies.





can follow not following your plan

or help you follow it.


Clip: http://www.mdsupport.org/



Fri, 31 Oct 2003




I took time off from trading for a few months ... I am now restarting my trading activities solely focused on FX.


My question is: FX seems to be a different animal compared to exchange traded markets. There appears to be a cost or profit of carry because of interest rate differentials.


Is such "fundamental information" worth worrying about given the obvious costs over time?

Yes, as an object to justify worrying, fundamental information works pretty well.


Another approach is to take your feelings of worry into TTP for resolution.



Oh, Whatever Shall I Do ...


when I run out of things to worry about



Clip: http://www.teachersandfamilies.com/


Thu, 30 Oct 2003


Post Workshop - Feedback

Dear Ed,

What a great workshop! At first I was concerned about the cost. I was pleasantly surprised with the valuable information and the TTP experience.

I found out after the seminar that my aunt died and then, when I returned to work Wednesday my company laid off about ten good workers! One of them was a good friend of mine who was trained by me (A 51 year old guy.). What a way to return home!

This and the previous lay off (There have been many rounds this year.) made me really think. Five months ago my direct supervisor was getting married. He just bought 2 fairly new cars had a mortgage and a baby on the way. He got laid off 1 month before his wedding!

I had better get to business with my trading and keep debt free!

The point is that my snapshot almost came true about me working from home (Not the way I intended though). Since the Workshop I have decided to change my snapshot and not to fall back in my chair if I have a great trade. Good profitable trades will be not so surprising to me. They will be normal!

I am going to find some people to practice TTP with until I get it down much better. It felt good to move towards feelings I wanted to move away from. It felt good to get past them. I don't know if that makes any sense to people reading this.

Lastly, I just want to say that it was really awesome to meet you and the other Tribe members in person. What great role models you all are for me. I hope we can meet again and again.



Thu, 30 Oct 2003


Pride is my weakness. I fear humiliation, rejection, shame. I identify many periods of my life from age 9 to 33 that have been orchestrated solely for the purpose of feeling shame.


My response has always been the same: avoidance and denial. To just be humble about who I am has never been an option. This drama controls much of my life.


It affects my social and professional life, my relationships and my sense of self worth. The drama extends itself into my trading and sets me up for loss. I have trouble locating the feeling or feelings that will allow me to unravel the knot.

Only one other person I know is remotely interested in giving TTP a chance. How do I entice others to the TTP experience?

I hope all went well in Reno. Judging from the feedback on FAQ some attendees have been transformed. Congratulations!


Wanting to entice others into TTP might be part of the setup for more rejection drama.


You might notice you don't have to sell TTP or entice people into it.  All you have to do is be a good receiver and all kinds of people show up.


You might take your feelings about wanting to entice others into TTP, into TTP for resolution.



How to Catch a Rabbit:


Stand still and make a noise

like a carrot.


How to Practice TTP:


Stand still and make a noise

like a good receiver.


Clip: http://www.egyptmonth.com/


Wed, 29 Oct 2003


New England Tribe

There is not a community listed on your web site near me. I would be interested to find out if there are other traders in my area with a desire to be involved in a Trading Tribe community.


I live in Dunstable, Massachusetts, about an hour north of Boston on the New Hampshire border by Nashau, New Hampshire. I have been trading futures since 1994 or 95, stocks since 1977.


I occasionally go to a MTA meeting in Boston, but mostly stock investors there. Let me know whatever you can and even if there are not interested parties in my area please keep my name and info on file.







You are now on the

Tribe Directory Page.




Dunstable, MA

Tax List from 1744


Total Tax Assessment for Dunstable

per General Town Meeting:

Twenty-Four Pounds

and Two Pence.


Clip: http://www.archivepublishing.com/


Wed, 29 Oct 2003


Post-Workshop Check-In

Hi Ed !

Took a few days of resting, as the Workshop was like a new birth. I feel like a different person.

Applying the technology you taught caused these changes. Since then, my trading account equity curve is up more than any other time in memory. There is plenty of change in other parts of life too. Some major moves toward my goal.

Not just me. Another attendee called this morning to say he's already achieved the goal he set during the Workshop, as he experienced an AHA that the only thing between himself and the goal was dissolved during the workshop processing.












Tue, 28 Oct 2003



Dear Ed,

Thank you for your gentle answer to my FAQ on risk management. I warmly appreciate your comments.

I trust that the TT went well in Reno and I hope everyone enjoyed it.

With kindest regards,


Tue,  28 Oct 2003


Right Livelihood

How would you define the words on your front page stating that "Mastery
includes Right livelihood"?


What is "right livelihood"? A 3% of the amount of explanation in "Mastery includes The Trading Tribe Process" would be appreciated ...

Best regards!

In The Trading Tribe, Right Livelihood means commitment to a course of action that you and your Tribe refine with TTP. It also means finding a way to stay on purpose.

Tue, 28 Oct 2003


Workshop - Thank You


It's Tuesday morning, and I find myself smiling and sometimes laughing out loud when I think of this past weekend.


Actually, right after the workshop on Sunday morning, when I drove back to the Bay Area, I had the windows down, the sunroof open, I was breathing in the wonderful fresh mountain air, I felt the warm sun on my face, and I visualized my dream.


I felt tingles on the back of my neck and shoulders, the hair on my neck stood up, I got goose bumps, the tingles moved to the top of my head and then passed up and out, as if flowing right out of the sunroof. (I bet the car in back of me could see the pixy dust flying!).


I felt such joy, such happiness, my heart was (IS) full of love, I thought of my beautiful wife, my magical little boy, my eyes welled up, and the tears ran down my face.


Crying is a wonderful emotion; I love celebrating my feelings. I AM living my dream, right now, every moment! I feel it, my dream is alive, I actually see it! It's what I want, it's what I've always wanted.

Ed, You're an angel.

Thank you for giving me the tools that will help me realize my full potential as a father, a husband, a trader, and as a human being.

Respectfully yours,




Tears of Joy


Clip: http://www.naturalvisions.com/



Tue, 28 Oct 2003



The Market will fool you at least twice!!

Dear Ed and Fellow Traders,

I want to share with you my latest trading experiences. After 4 years of relatively insignificant ups and downs I finally decided to trade systematically.


After 2 years of relative insignificant profits from systematic trading (I trade only one futures market; low capital and no other markets available trading from the country I live in due to regulations) I noticed that I experienced feelings of depression and marasm.


But I waited and waited because I knew that this would eventually change, though I never knew when. Well, guess what? After another year it did. While constantly observing the market I noticed it slowly changing. I got a buy signal and found that it was strangely hard to actually put the trade on. I also noticed that my fellow traders (systematic) wouldn't do it at all giving me at least several excuses. I JUST KNEW IT WAS a great opportunity and that made me glad.


Finally, after SOOO long... This is when my thinking changed and my life, THE NOW or whatever also changed. I started having lots of fun with my surrounding, smiled every 3 seconds, generally I was the happiest guy around. Got two job offers after an interview. Man, I even fell in love with a woman I felt like instantly marrying. In the meantime, I risked almost everything I had, just about as much as my guts could take (I know, I know ... I was scared of my risk level and the volatility awaiting, really).


Call it luck or intuition but I was right then and eventually made around 700% in 2.5 months. I also knew the market would start an obvious correction so I got prepared for it. At least that's what I thought I did. What happened was exactly the opposite, I lost control over my "rules and emotions".


After a few days of aggressive slumps I figured it was time for the correction to be over (I was right lately, wasn't I?). So, I added even more contracts. That's when I almost began day trading, you can imagine what happened next. Although I like to think that my objective trading knowledge is very good, I hate to say that I made all the mistakes of the average sucker.


What's worse, I made them consciously; from risking so much in the first place, to blindly hoping to recoup. I knew I was doing wrong I just couldn't help myself and stop. After another 2 months I ended up loosing around 80% of the profit, left with a 130% in plus. Not bad, huh? Yes, quite bad. Forget the money. Image the joy and elation I felt watching my dreams come true, something I waited for so long and then the disappointment and regret right afterwards, loosing the feeling (hmmm, heard this before?).


Right now I'm healing my wounds with the help of a therapist. This is serious, since the last thing I would consider with my rather arrogant attitude is to visit a shrink. But that had to change too, I guess. Live and grow and learn from your mistakes. This is NOT always cool.

Best wishes.

PS. Nevertheless, my girl still loves me ...

You might consider joining a Tribe in your area ... or starting one.



When Fred and CM communicate


 drama tends to dissolve. 


Clip: http://www.icmc.org/images/drama.gif


Tue, 28 Oct 2003


Workshop Feedback

from a Chat Room

To date, [the Workshop] was the best thing that has happened to me in my life. I lead the Trading Tribe here in [xxx], and participating in an intentional community definitely helped me to get even more out of the workshop.

Ed Seykota and Charles Faulkner were incredibly supportive, and they along with
the other attendees helped me to resolve the issues that were standing between
me and what I wanted (and that is to get funding for and start my hedge fund)

Ed over-delivered on my expectations, and he was very sincere in his intentions.

I do not say much about it, because I want to respect the privacy of the other attendees and I want to adhere to disclosure principles.

Other people might have different experiences, so you might want to experience TTP for yourself and see if a workshop like this is good for you.





When you Experience

the Drama of Funding


the drama dissolves.



Clip: http://www.canadiantheatre.com/



Mon, 27 Oct 2003


TTP Workshop - Feedback

The TTP Workshop I experienced this past weekend reverberates within me as one of a few profound experiences in my life both as a trader and human being.

Ed and Charles kindly offer only the "red pill" which I chose to accept and take. :)

Experiencing my commitment,

Yes !



You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes ... Remember, all I am offering is the truth. Nothing more. -- Morpheus


What does this all mean? -- Neo


It means to buckle up your seat belt, Dorothy! Because Kansas is going bye bye. -- Cypher


Clip: http://web.mit.edu/shamikd/


Mon, 27 Oct 2003


Whatever Appears is Meditation

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I decide to used less leverage by trading stocks and stop my options trading
activities in near term.

Anyway I starts reading more of your FAQ, and I realize your process of experiencing your feeling is somewhat similar to the Mahamudra meditation system in Tibetan Buddhism. The teacher teaching Mahamudra
encourages student to look directly at the mind nature and also the nature of emotional
experience nakedly without judging. Here is an ancient song from Niguma, the female siddha of Shangpa Kagyu lineage:

If you don't understand that whatever appears is meditation,

What can you achieve by applying an antidote?

Perceptions are not abandoned by discarding them,

But are spontaneously freed when recognized as illusory.


You might take your feelings of  longing to realize ultimate Dharmata - into TTP as a starting point.




Lotus on Water




Lotus Under Water








Sun, 26 Oct 2003

More e-TTP

These "obstacles" and irresolution present themselves like a mysterious, invisible "force" that sometimes holds me back in my actions, as if paralyzed. I validate this "paralysis" and experience with a sinking feeling in the stomach, some contractions/tensions across several parts of the body, sometimes only on the left side. Then they resolve into a slight burning feeling the stomach, until dissipation. At this point I am aware it's guilt about success.

I proceed to experience with this "negative" bias towards feelings: I am aware there is a fundamental flaw in the way I am addressing entry points for the TTP. There is an element of causality in that I associate a given feeling with a bad effect of some wrong-doing or mistake. Then I bring it to the TTP to discover the "cause" of the "problem". I feel I may enhance the e-TTP experience here by just following the flow of feelings and validating them in whatever form or way they present themselves, rather than looking for a cause or asking questions about their origin, which is a fundamental flaw.

I acknowledge your intention to execute TTP by email - and the progress you are making.


The difference between  e-TTP and TTP is like the difference between sex manual and sex.



There is a Time and Place

for Everything


Clip: www.blehert.com/artist/ reader.html