© Ed Seykota, 2003 - 2004 ... Write for permission to reprint.

Ed Seykota's

Frequently Asked Questions

Trading Tribe Home Page ··· FAQ Home Page & Ground Rules

Tribe Directory - How to Join ... TTP - The Trading Tribe Process

Risk Management ...  Fractals & Borderlines  ...  Workshop

Charts  ...  Search this Site


November 1-8, 2003



(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sat, 08 Nov 2003


Hi ... I would like to forward you my resume. I am interested in any trading opportunities you may have have available. Currently, I trade for the trend following fund [xxx], but would like to get back to the good life of the west. I have attached my resume in Word format.


I'm pretty much a one-man operation ... although I am renovating the office in anticipation of growth ... thinking of getting some management.



Build it and they will come.


Clip: http://www.lpf.com/adventure/toilets/

Sat, 8 Nov 2003


www.RadialMomentum.com  and

www.TradingTribe.com   are down!


Dear Ed,

Hello, its me again. I am trying to access both sites but I constantly get the message that the sites are down.


The interesting
thing is that I've tried from 4 different computers using different IP´s. Can I help you in any way? Please, let me know....

I want you to know that the Tribe site is very important for me. I wish you all the best.


Perhaps you are tuning in to a unique frequency that no one else gets ... some pretty good traders seem to have that knack.




Coming In on Channel 1


Fancy headgear may help intuition ...

so may practicing TTP.


Clip: http://www.sunnykeach.com/sam/


Fri, 7 Nov 2003


Perhaps Someday


I was doing my period internet/trading surfing and came across your web site ... Perhaps someday I’ll jump in one of your courses.

I hope you are well.

All the best,

Putting things in the future is putting them where they cannot happen.


Doing something perhaps someday is equivalent to not doing it



Fortune Tellers

Live in the Future


So do people who want to put things off.


So do Fundamentalists.


Clip: http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/


Fri, 7 Nov 2003




I'd appreciate your thoughts on this subject. It's near and dear to me.

I'm following a dream I've had for a long time, and I choose not to tell my parents the details of this dream.

Both of my parents are PhD's in economics and finance, they are very bright people and have successful 'non trading' careers. Both however, have traded, whether at a bank or managing their own money. Their trading results were fair, maybe even good, depending on one's view ... both have claimed to be excellent traders, and how they're brilliant economists. I don't see their P&L's reflecting excellence.

I on the other hand, fell into commodities ... I'd go home at night as a young 20-something and describe my technical trading style to my parents and I felt ridiculed by their questions and comments.


They'd say "You don't actually believe in that voodoo, do you?", "That's just plain ridiculous.", or "We don't believe in that stuff in fixed income". I know it affected me to some degree. I never had their acceptance. I felt they looked down on commodities traders, and technical trading (and me) ...

I found myself becoming more distant from my parents during this trading period, and I think it was due to the fact that when I was around them, the topic of work would always come up and I felt uncomfortable discussing what I did. So I stayed away.

After a couple of years of tinkering with computerized systems, I have a system that fits my style. It's completely technical. No fundamentals ... at all. PhD's in economics and finance are not allowed in my office.

Now, I'm leaving the corporate world to pursue a dream of managing money, more specifically, managing a COMMODITY pool, and I commit to this dream.

Last night I was on the hot seat and I experienced the feelings of 'not telling my parents my dream'.


I had a few judgmental feelings (guilt) to experience before I ultimately felt a sadness (need for acceptance?). Which I described as a sadness in my heart, my heart felt large and heavy, deep blood red, beating slowly, and there was a deeper blood red wax melting slowly over the top, not suffocating it but, restricting its movement, my breathing was heavy, and I was sad.


The feeling seemed to sink, as I began to slouch, my wonderful tribe members encouraged me to feel it more and I did, I sank as much as I could, pulsating like a big sad heart, and the feeling passed. I felt sudden relief, tingles on my chest, hair on my neck stood up, and I smiled a big smile.


My aha was that I was looking for acceptance from my parents to do what I want in life. Permission to do what I am attracted too. This was going on for a long while ... I then asked myself, do I need their acceptance to realize my dream? No, I don't. The sad feelings were replaced with an excited, energized, focused feeling. I find myself focusing on my wife, my son, and my dreams.

I commit to realizing my full potential.

I appreciate any observations, guidance, or ideas you might offer.

You might consider being a receiver for your parents.  You don't have to sell them on TTP or even mention it.


Perhaps, by listening to their feelings, you might find judgment (on both sides) transforming into acceptance.


Meanwhile, you might continue taking your feelings about judges into your tribe process.







People Have Different Views

of Judges


depending on how they judge them.


Sometimes judgments (unwanted feelings) "stack-up" to protect each other. You can use TTP to navigate the stack, locate the "happy judge" and set them all free.











Fri, 7 Nov 2003


Dear Mr. Seykota,

I have had a high regard for your methodologies ever since reading Market Wizards and though not stated, possibly through the works of Dr. Van Tharp’s Peak Performance Course. I apologize for the intrusion should this not be the appropriate forum to contact you.


I am writing an article for Stock Futures and Options magazine on the importance of traders balancing their trading plan with their personal financial plan. This is my first article and I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss your insights.

I have found your teaching methods to be holistic which is why I felt your experience would be of great value. Your observation of Jesse Livermore pulling “safe money” to trade in Market Wizards was one of the inspiring ideas for the article.

Please feel free to call me at your convenience.


Once again Mr. Seykota, thank you for your time and I look forward to speaking with you.

You may discuss ideas and insights you find on these pages in your article if you attribute them to FAQ.


If you wish to meet me in person, you might like to attend a Workshop, likely in 2004.  See FAQ on Mentoring, below.


In the meanwhile, you might consider joining a tribe, or starting one, in your area.



A Telescope Helps You

see the universe.


A tribe helps you see yourself.


Clip: http://www.interlink.org.nz/


Fri, 7 Nov 2003

Warning !!!

Hi Ed,

You should put a warning on the hardball process.

Warning: The hardball process is a powerful tool and is to be used with great care. When used properly, it can change your life.

Since my return from the workshop, I accomplished all the goals that lead to my dream of "wake up". I originally thought these goals would take me a few months to accomplish. To my surprise and excitement, they only took a few weeks.

The hardball session conducted at the Reno Workshop cleared away everything that was between me and my dream. My feelings of self doubt, uncertainty, insecurity and other feelings that held me back, VANISHED, once I committed to feeling them.


Now, I accept the good intentions behind all feelings, i.e. self doubt feeling = do your homework, and uncertainty feeling = manage market risk.

Once the path became clear, I realized it was obtainable, and as you pointed out, it's now an item on the menu, instead of some fuzzy fantasy; and once it's on the menu, I can decide if I really want it or not.

Needless to say, I ordered immediately.

I've worked a smooth, relaxed exit strategy with my current employer. They asked me to stick around until the holidays are over and I am so jazzed about realizing my dream, I said 'Sure!, whatever helps you.'. They were so pleased with my flexibility and willingness to help that they threw in a severance package to boot!

Respectfully yours,





Colonial-Style Hardball


in which a few visionaries get together

and create a new nation.



Clip: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/



Fri, 7 Nov 2003

Communication between Fred and CM

Hi Ed,


I would like to call you and get your help to overcome my obstacles to make my Fred communicate with CM again.


I would be pleased if you can give me a number so that I can call you or if you like to call me, you can reach me under [xxxx-xx-xxxxxxxx]

Thanks a lot in advance,



You might consider joining / starting a Tribe in your area.  See FAQ on Mentoring, below.

Fri, 7 Nov 2003


Receive and They Come

Results from TTP seem to indicate intentions to send and receive.

As I develop as a receiver, I find myself engaged in TTP throughout the course of the day. We're all people, and we all have feelings.

It seems that right livelihood can bring about a change in perspective in which the entire world becomes ones intentional community.





What if We All

Become Good Receivers



Clip: www.msss.com/earth/


Fri, 7 Nov 2003

Mail Man

Hi Ed,


I didn't see you today in Madison Wi. on the north shore of lake Wingra. It must have been someone who looks like you right?


Is there anyone in Madison Wi. currently in TT? I plan to start trading futures soon and need all the support and information I'm willing to listen to.


I have a system that works on paper and hopefully in the real world also. Never had any exposer to a computer except on this old web tv for the last 4 months.


You must have many e-mails daily how can you possibly answer them all?


Thanks for answering mine.



You might check the Tribe Directory for a Local Tribe.  If you don't see one near you, you might start one.


I answer mail that I feel might be of interest to readers. 




Writing Speed is Way Up

since 1775.


Writing quality is, however,

arguably, down.


Voltaire (1694-1778) at his desk,

from an engraving by Baquoy (ca. 1795).


Clip: www.jasa.net.au/


Fri, 7 Nov 2003

Mentoring / Private Training Sessions

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I understand from various articles and websites (such as Innerworth) that you sometimes mentor and /or provide private training for appropriate traders and this type opportunity would be of very serious interest to me.



I am presently (in my opinion) about 75% there in my personal development journey, but still need to make some further changes and refinements.


To accomplish the next steps, I need the assistance of a true professional, who can make clear and objective observations (based on actual experience in markets) and relate them back to me as guidance. They say; “when the student is ready /the teacher will appear...”


I would like to spend a few days discussing trading in detail with you personally (at your convenience and for a fee of course) in the near future, if this would be possible.

I will look forward to your reply and many thanks in advance for your time.

Best regards,

Your most cost-effective move might be to join a Local Tribe or to start one. 


If you want to hang out with me, you might stay tuned to this site for  notice of another Trading Tribe Workshop in 2004.


If you want one-on-one time with me, submit a clear one-page written description of what you want to accomplish.




Reduced Rates


for Banjo-Playing Amphibians



clip: www.nnba.org

Thu, 6 Nov 2003

NY Intensive TTP

(Trading Tribe Process)

Saturday, 15 Nov.


From contact with members of other tribes, reports in FAQ, and discussions with some of those who attended the Reno Workshop, the New York groups have started to map our understanding of hardball and the related preparation to do it.


We feel keen to implement these evolving processes at our Saturday intensive on 15 Nov. Our understanding of TTP and Hardball
continues to evolve rapidly driven by some combination of what you and others have undertaken and the deepening collective wisdom of our local groups.

[ Reno Workshop attendees -- If any of you have insights, observations, or feelings about the process and a willingness to share them please contact either of the NY groups. It could help us a lot. Thanks. ]
Since your posting of the Saturday session announcement on FAQ we've received inquiries about attending from up and down the east cost. I put together an email to give interested parties a sense of what we think they need to prepare and expect and conveying our current understanding of the


To people asking about the Intensive:

Thanks for your interest. Your willingness to travel to NY attests to your commitment. Given this I'll speak directly to what we have in mind. We intend the Saturday session to move fast and deep. We have serious people involved with a relentless commitment to do serious work. We have already begun work within our regular meetings to prepare. You'll need to do a lot on your own (and maybe within your own community if possible) to get up to speed.

We intend for everyone attending to come prepared with:

* Strong TTP feeling based sending and receiving skills;

* A "Dream" - A named, concise and vivid feeling based description (expressed in SVO-p) of you projected to the year 2023. Develop this as a "snapshot" in time;

* Clearly defined process oriented intermediate goals that you need to
achieve to get you to the dream. (I will forward a template for goal development that you may find useful via separate email). Good to "snapshot" the goals too.
As we have engaged this process we see these as essential prerequisites to do Hardball. A review of recent FAQ's, the TTP process description, and the agenda of Ed's workshop should help you understand what we expect.
We have begun to develop this stuff within our TTP sessions. Everyone in the group needs to signoff on each participant's dream and goals. You'll be a bit behind on this so you may want to try and get feedback from other TTP members closer to home as you develop these. Send me any preliminary ideas and to whatever degree my schedule permits I'll supply whatever feedback I can.
Submit your final dream and goals by email prior to Wednesday 12 Nov so we can distribute them to our Wed night meeting participants. This will help make you more of a known quantity in the group and help us all move as efficiently as possible on Saturday.

Also, please forward:

* Resume
* Understanding of TTP and
* Your general views on trading.
I appreciate that this looks like a lot of preparation. We sincerely believe its the only way for us all to get the most out of the limited time we have on Saturday to dive into hardball.
We see hardball as an interactive process between a pair of TTP'ers working in turn (sending/receiving, receiving/sending) to dissolve the feeling barriers between them and their goal(s). In full disclosure, we're making this up as we go. On the other hand, we have witnessed some extraordinary things over the past months.

Please advise your willingness to commit to this process. If you can, I feel certain the experience won't disappoint you.

Best Wishes for your Intensive !  Keep me posted on how it goes.


See the link to the notice of meeting, at the top of this page.


Note to Group Leaders


If you are going "intensive" with the process you might like to be especially aware of some of the "unintended consequences" of trying to "fix" people.


The Trading Tribe does not intend to fix or change anyone. It intends to receive people just the way they are and the way they are not.


The Trading Tribe intends to validate feelings and promote experiencing them.  Drama may disappear as an incidental result.


For example, TTP might incidentally help someone dissolve a drama that Fred sets up to experience a feeling.


If you "bust" the sender on a drama without first encouraging him to fully experience the underlying feelings, he may abandon the drama - and suppress the feeling even more.


In this condition, Fred may set up a replacement drama in unfamiliar territory, in which the sender has little risk control.


So if you discuss dramas, you might like to do so in a validating way - encourage the sender to continue the drama until it just melts away in the process of experiencing the feelings.




Ice Just Melts Away


in a warm environment.



Clip: www.trengovestudios.com/ ice/ice11.shtml

Thu, 6 Nov 2003


Site Down !

Dear Ed,

I use the www.seykota.com  to access the www.tradingtribe.com  site, but it is down. I access your site on a daily basis for more than a year I guess, and I really miss it! Thank you very much for your concern.


Reports of site off-line seem to correlate pretty well with sunspots.  By fundamental analysis, then, the inaccessibility of FAQ causes sunspots.





Finally, we Know the Cause.


Clip: http://nmp.jpl.nasa.gov/st5/



Thu,  06 Nov 2003


You’re the true FAQ Master!

Hi Fr. Ed

I happened to have read most of the pages on your site and tried, in my pompous
fundamentalist manner, to figure out why you simultaneously mention

1) Trend following (TTP)
2) Radial Momentum
3) Fractals

Though I don’t get the radial momentum thing (just can’t get a lift) I somehow feel that trend following and fractals have a lot in common. Not just because a weekly chart looks similar to 5-min one. What are the markets? Well, just about n people trading their emotions at the same time, where n >= 2.

A TTP meeting resembles a market. Just about n people sharing their emotions, where n>= 2. The hot seat is the “market”, the receiver/s are the trend follower’s. They join.

Here’s the fun part:

Imagine a real market, say, T.BOND sitting in the TTP hot seat saying: “Well, ya know….After years of making a killing I kinda got depressed ‘cause everyone wanted me to be happy and just couldn’t forget all of the traders trying to rip me of the last time… felt kinda blue… so I slumped... BUT HEY! Now that you guys know how I feel, I feel much better. Thanks, I can now see I no longer have enemies but friends and I feel soooo great I guess I’ll just sky rocket
and you can join me if you wish! “

Or this:

Imagine a very sexy pair of STOCKings sitting at a bar surrounded by many, many
trader boys. They try being cool but they look greedy, sweaty and in overall nervous and pathetic, eventually some throw their hands around frantically and leave the bar, murmuring bad names under their nose. Now there’s more room around the stockings, just a few leftovers drowning their resentment in a jug of beer and BAM! Here comes in the PRO! Looks at stockings, instantly comes up to her and says with sheer confidence: “I understand you’re having a hard time sitting here and rejecting all ‘them losers, but I also noticed that all stockings have only one hole and like to walk in pairs. Hey, is that a smile I just saw? I just love to watch you laugh… excuse us gentlemen, we’re kinda busy…”

(Ed. Tell me I’m funny, pleeeeeease, PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP. I feel I just couldn’t make anybody laugh in my family when I was a young boy. OH WHY OH

Final digression and I’m gone: Unfortunately, the markets don’t speak directly (ever tried using prices on a music tablature and listening to the sounds it makes?) Probably would sound like a pissed-off cat or something…

Kind regards,

We will be in touch (Me and I too)

You might take the feelings of wanting to win approval - by using humor, trading, pleasing people - into the process.



Some Comedians Stand Up

to express their feelings


others, to avoid expressing them.



Clip: http://richcalligan.com/simpsonica/



Thu, 6 Nov 2003


Open Interest

Have you ever used [open interest] as a tool? Why or why not?

What happened to questions and answers for this week? I read them less than 5 hours ago and cannot find them now.


You answered my question on stops but what I found more interesting and frustrating was the 100,000 recommended account size.


I've made numerous trades on paper with 10-20,000 . I use a current price chart, oi and some government reports.


Are there any other sites similar to this one where questions can be answered without some one after a commission?  

I sometimes use volume and open interest to determine liquidity.


I get intermittent reports about ability to locate this site.


Your last sentence seems a bit ambiguous; you might try re-writing it in SVO-p (S-ubject, V-erb, O-bject P-resent Tense).



Enthusiastic Commission Merchants


hot on the trail of a client.


Clip: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jlmcjr/


Wed, 05 Nov 2003


Old eMail from 2 Months Ago

and a Fresh Start

Hello, Ed.


Actually, I returned to the site to check your response, if any, because that is how you manage your communication on the site.


I don't really care and would actually rather not see my previous email again, that was sent and meant at the time. First of all, I am not very good at this whole "public forum" thing. Not my natural first choice for communication.


I am used to just talking with someone one on one. Now that I am I am writing , I need to apologize for dumping on you back then. Sorry, not necessary. I do respect what you stand for and your obvious efforts to help others.


After reading some more of the FAQ I got a better sense of what you are up to. (I also saw that I would not be the first person and will not be the last to take issue with some of your quirks of response-style.)


Yes I was a bit cranky about both your responses, and also my inability to frame the words properly during my first questions to you. When it comes to that sort of math, I have no outside exposure or available help. Just my own cobbled - together stuff.


Yes, I think you seem to have a functional self-work process which seeks to address many common problems. If a method (or a certain way of describing their process verbally) works for a person, that is OK by me. It doesn't , however, mean that it is the only useful way there is to describe or approach things.


As the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Lots of people don't like what they see as pigeon-holing systems.


That is definitely an issue for me that this email still finds me firmly on one side of. (I know, hard to miss.) I do think we all need to remain open-minded. I will keep working on this.

Yes I was definitely asking for help with that first question. Again, I should have read the ground rules and some of the previous FAQ's first. I would not have needed to pose that question directly. I have since come to some helpful conclusions.


Some of the material posted on your site was helpful for comparison. As is probably obvious, I have no clue about how to program a computer test sequence for any part of my system, and have had to do it manually, with only charts and spreadsheet functions, and (from an emotional perspective) in real time and with real wins and losses.


It has been a big and engrossing job for me and still is. I believe in what I am doing and would like to continue to get better at it, and yes, be a better human being also.


I don't think it is all that useful to think that either of us knows much about the other from a couple of emails from a distance. But maybe we could try a fresh start, if you would like. Looking back, the previous rant may have been a bit more than was needed.

No harm intended, bad moment at my end.

To refer to a previous send, do so by date and title.


You might take your feelings about your previous email into the process to dissolve them.


Perhaps some of these same feelings also stand between you and developing a computer testing resource.



Pigeon Holes


can restrict you

and can also

help you get organized.



Clip: http://www.wbindfurn.com/



Wed, 5 Nov 2003


Teachable Moment


I share this experience for FAQ visitors, TTP workshop participants, and yourself as a contribution of service to help.

The Thursday before the workshop, I sold a larger position I owned as something in me didn't feel right. The next day, the stock, LF, gapped down when the firm released poor earnings. I sidestepped a blow through intuition and luck. This felt good. I was appreciative and let the feeling pass.

Two weeks later, I bought the continuation breakout of IMDC with a rather large position. I felt nervous over the past two days about the position regarding similar opening gap downs for whatever reason. Strangely (or not so), the stock gapped down on news (3/2 stock split). Despite feeling these same types of fears about the position, I chose to hold the position in part to my commitment to "equity surge" gained at the workshop. This was a 4.2% loss for the portfolio when I liquidated on the overnight gap down. My biggest drawdown all year is 5% on a daily basis and 1.3% on a monthly basis.

My first feeling (after seeing the stock offered pre-open 8 points lower and well through my stop) was of an uncomfortable jolt to my stomach that zoomed up towards my chest.


I felt something similar to lightheadedness - a feeling like when I was in grade school and called upon to answer a question I didn't know ... maybe a feeling of being suddenly and unexpectedly in the wrong. When I liquidated, tension in my gut immediately eased, but I still felt an emotional residue from the experience.

Many voices (non-descript) began swirling about the loss as this is large for me on an immediate basis, though I used a good deal of leverage across the portfolio when it happened. I began experiencing self doubt as a voice in the back of my head. "This gets me off track," "How will I recover" "This puts me way back/distances me from my goal" even "Am I a good trader?" all of which I listened to and let pass. I went with the trend and let them all come. Trend following with my emotions ... Hang ten with fear, self doubt, and self-recrimination to AVOID further wipeout ... Woo hoo!

In the quiet periods between the aforementioned "chatter," I experienced moments of clarity. I attribute the clarity specifically to allowing the thoughts to come and accepting them and avoiding any fight to repress on a continuing basis.


In this clarity, I found strength, resilience, and the ability to re frame the event/loss as a temporary blip in the overall path.


 Moreover, I received a positive phrase during this clarity that I wrote for support and focus:

Through Commitment, I forge Strength of Character during Adversity.

This Thursday, I take my feelings into TTP to fully experience it and all feelings related to the loss at our next tribe meeting. I report back.

As far as trading decisions went after the hit, I applied my common sense. I pared back risk in other positions to give myself some breathing room and care for myself emotionally as I heal. I still bought new positions that morning and added to winners. Whether or not they make money, I know not. But it did feel good and empowering to see familiar signals and feel good about taking them.


This is different than the past.


Yes. Learning to celebrate your feelings about trading is a big milestone along the path to finding right livelihood as a trader.


The more Fred and CM can communicate about risk (jolts in stomach, zooming towards chest) before placing trades, the more likely you are to stick with your system.


The more you try to ignore your feelings, the more Fred seems to arrange occasional trading episodes to assist you to experience them.




Your Real Trading System


consists of the feelings

you are unwilling to experience.






Wed, 5 Nov 2003


Lunar Ticks

Dear Sir:

Do you find the phases of the moon useful for trade entry, exit and/or money management?.

Yours sincerely.

Yes. Some of the best times to exercise good risk management are new moon, old moon, half moon, quarter moon and blue moon.




Moon Unit


with father, Frank Zappa


Clip: http://www.klik.hr/naslovnica/


Wed, 05 Nov 2003


Turtle Trader

M. Ed Seykota,

Can I ask you what do you think about the website www.turtletrader.com  and the educational course they offer to learn Trend Following?


The Turtle Trader web site is a free resource to the trading community that carries a wealth of factual information about trading - including historical futures data.


FAQ does not endorse commercial products or specific methods. See Ground Rules.




Lots of Free Information

for the Trading Community


Clip: www.turtletrader.com

Wed, 5 Nov 2003



Ed Says: "There's a time and a place (for everything).


[This is a saying for] - when someone is behaving in a way which you do not think is suitable for the situation they are in. -- Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary.

Yes. Actually I do not execute TTP by e-mail. I only use it to share my issues and receive support. Then I execute TTP in my relationships and everyday life.

I agree that in the actual stage I am I may start celebrating the very feeling of being myself. I start feeling free.

I would greatly enjoy the warmth of a physical intentional community, but up to now all I can do is to practice TTP by promoting the flow of feelings in my everyday life and relationships, by validating my feelings as well others'. I am also thinking of implementing real time virtual meetings.

Thanks Ed for your generosity of heart in sharing your experience with us, which I think is kind of revolutionary, esp. with regard to closing the gap between the linear causality (CM - logic) and holistic evolution (Fred - emotions) approaches.


I acknowledge that the interruption of flow of experience between them is a source of big dramas. And what's best is that we don't even need to know anything to do TTP. This is great!

Best regards,

TTP is an exercise in giving and receiving support.  You do not need an official group to practice receiving - you can practice just in the process of life itself.


An intentional community, even an e-community, can provide intentional support in mastering both sending and receiving.


To the extent you might dislike feeling judgment and/or invalidation in close situations, you might be hesitant to join or start a physical group.


To the extent you acknowledge, share and celebrate your feelings about closeness, you may be able to convert them from adversaries to allies.



Physical Closeness

can be scary


and can also help you stay alive

in cold water


Clip: www.hypothermia.org/ inwater.htm

Tue, 4 Nov 2003



I have never traded except on paper for about 3 years. I'm concerned about floor traders taking out stops. I've been told electronic trading runs after hours in most markets. Could this be a safer way to trade as far as being stopped out?

Getting stopped out is part of trend trading.


Experiencing the feelings of getting stopped out and converting them from adversaries to allies is part of TTP.



Mighty Floor Trader

just waiting around to get your stops.


Generally better as an ally

 than as an adversary.


Clip: http://www.bodybuildingfreaks.net


Tue, 4 Nov 2003

Enticing (see earlier)

Ed Says: “Wanting to entice others into TTP might be part of the setup for more rejection drama.”

OK. That makes sense. Thoughts like “will I ever be able to start a tribe”, “will it be successful”, “who can I approach that might be interested in it”, all accompany feelings that there is an impending sense of failure surrounding it all.


I fear starting and failing, hmmm….sort of like how I feel when I think about getting down to the business of developing a trading system. I keep putting it off. A part of me insists that it is futile to even start until I clear myself of unresolved issues and drama. So … if I do have issues surrounding fear of failure, rejection, embarrassment etc, would any attempt at starting a tribe be a setup for failure?


How do I experience my feelings without the tribe I think is necessary to do so, and knowing that any attempt to start one will end up replaying a Fred-ian drama? I know I’m not supposed to ask fundamental questions like how and why but I keep having these pervasive thoughts.

Ed Says: “You might notice you don't have to sell TTP or entice people into it. All you have to do is be a good receiver and all kinds of people show up.”

I have no experience with receiving in a tribe setting. I do however try to be aware of how others are feeling. I ask them: “How do you feel about that?” I also try to pick up on non-verbal clues as to how they really feel about whatever it is that evokes the emotion they are experiencing. I don’t think I’m very good at it, or perhaps I’m doing it wrong or missing something, but despite my best efforts to receive, so far no one is knocking down my door to share their feelings. I know this sort of stuff takes time but I feel stuck and I don’t know how to experience the feeling of being stuck so as to get unstuck. J

Ed Says:  “You might take your feelings about wanting to entice others into TTP, into TTP for resolution.”

I have no idea where to start looking for this feeling or if it accompanies feelings at all.

I trust your wisdom and will concentrate my efforts in the direction you point but it is difficult going it alone. The best approach for me might be to just jump in with both feet and stumble through it until it becomes natural.

I live in Gander, Newfoundland, Canada. I intend to start a tribe. If there is any other information you need to have me listed on your directory page please contact me.

Thanks Ed,







You are now on the

Tribe Directory Page.






You can practice TTP wherever you are, simply by being a good receiver - and by celebrating people just the way they are and just the way they aren't - not trying to change them.


Sometimes the best way to attract people is to celebrate their desire to stay away.







Tue, 4 Nov 2003

NY TTP Saturday Intensive
15 November 2003

The New York TTP Groups will hold a

TTP Saturday Intensive Session
15 November 2003
10:00 AM - 6:00 PM


Check-in 10:00 AM (We will start promptly so come a bit early to get settled)

TTP 10:30 AM - 1:00 PM
Lunch 1:00 PM - 2:00 PM
Hardball 2:00 PM - 6:00 PM

(we can extend if the participants so desire)

RSVP - We welcome participants from other groups and will take as many as we can fit in the space. e-mail contact listed in Tribe "Manhattan, NY (separate group)" for location.

Ed - All reports on your Workshop suggest a great success. We'd love to incorporate any lessons learned from that experience into this Saturday intensive - anything you think can help much appreciated.

Best regards,

OK.  Good luck! Let me know how it goes.

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003


Workshop Feedback

Dear Ed,

Thank you and Charles for a most informative weekend and unique life experience during the workshop. I am proud to say I am fulfilling my commitment and goal that I presented to the workshop group. The concept of visualizing a goal as a photo snapshot is a very useful goal setting technique. I have shared this with many friends who also find it very valuable.

During the presentation of our goals, I debated with myself on which goal to
present to the group.


One of my goals was to spread joy to loved ones and my snapshot featured a very emotional moment for me. Just picturing the snapshot would cause tears to form hence I was hesitant on presenting such an emotional goal for fear of ridicule by the group.


Ultimately, I decided to present the goal with an agreement with 'myself’ to hold back my emotions so that I would not cry. When my turn came, I experienced the intense emotion that I was trying to deny myself. I cried but was able to express my goal in a succinct manner. The group provided rapid acceptance and enrollment of my goal, and I know of one other group member who also shed some tears with me.

I subsequently worked through the feelings standing between me and my goal in the hardball process. However, I believe a major step toward realizing my goal was achieved by being able to express it to the group and experiencing the tearful emotions.


Although I continued to feel tearful after that experience, it was not so much from sadness, but joy. The feeling was actually enjoyable for the first time. That feeling has become my ally.

My wife and son are displaying the joy that I am now better able to send. Thank you again for all your effort and contribution.




Becoming a better trader and becoming a better person seem to go together.




The Most Direct Communications

 require no words.


They require only a good receiver.





Mon, 3 Nov 2003


I’m a former senior trial attorney for the Enforcement Division of the US Securities & Exchange Commission. I was at your web site, and I thought you might enjoy one I run.

The present state of the US capital markets made me realize how little people know about the SEC and its law enforcement work.

Towards that end, I created a web site to educate people in the industry and investors. It’s had over 350,000 hits.

I invite you and your professional colleagues to please take a look. The URL is www.RealityAtTheSEC.com.

Fred and CM can operate differently depending on how freely feelings flow:


A. Pro-Active operation  -  free flow of feelings - you sense risk in advance and act appropriately.

B. Re-Active operation -  restricted flow of feelings - you struggle with emergencies as they develop.


TTP assists Fred and CM to communicate feelings ... this tends to move the operation from B to A.


You seem to be trying to move the operation of the SEC from B to A. 


I wonder if and how you are promoting communication of feelings about investing within the agency and within the investment community.


Keep me posted.











Mon, 3 Nov 2003


Incline Village Trading Tribe

Hi Ed,

Another good day [since the workshop]. I'd like to participate in your tribe meetings. If acceptable please let me know so I can be there on Thursday.


You are welcome.


There is no charge to attend, other than commitment to participate fully and consistently.


Please make sure you are able to commit to attend the next dozen meetings.

Mon, 3 Nov 200


Los Angeles Tribe -

Embers and Members

Hi Ed,

I have not been able to contact the person in charge of the Los Angeles tribe. When I send an email to the contact email address I get the following message "The following addresses had permanent fatal errors".


Do you have any other contact information for the Los Angeles tribe besides the email address? Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you for your website.

I, too, get no reply from that email address.  So, as of now, it no longer appears in the directory.


If you wish to form a Tribe in LA, send me your contact information.


Recent Photo


 of the man who isn't there.


Clip: http://www.villagehatshop.com/


Mon, 3 Nov 2003

More Workshops

Dear Ed,

I just found out about your seminar a week too late. Do you have any others planned in the near future? Thank you.


Likely in 2004.



Still Documenting the Last One

Mon, 3 Nov 2003


Thank You for Everything


I am so glad I invested my money and time, to come to Reno. You have assembled a phenomenal group of individuals that will owe a great part of their success to you and your teachings.


Just being plugged into your utility for 2 days was extremely powerful. You definitely lit me up.


Everything seems so much easier, clearer. Your book will be able to help anyone and everyone. I hope for everybody’s sake you write it soon. I am even more excited (going with the flow) to bring the TTP into my life even more.


I have wanted to email (actually call, but I respect your privacy) sooner but I have had soooo many things happen and not happen that I can’t catalogue all of them.


A compelling change for me is I have been home a week and I haven’t raised my voice once or gotten angry. This is highly unusual for me.


I can’t help but feel that you have really inspired a small group of individuals that are going to make their impact felt on this world even more since plugging into your utility, myself included.


I am inspired by a number of your actions and teachings but the two most compelling for me is your ability to be completely non judgmental and your sensitivity to what others are experiencing and feeling. I feel with practice I am improving upon both of these traits for the betterment of myself and everyone around me.


On a money management note your lockout clause is a classic that actually inspires me to manage other people’s money again. I originally thought after managing $80 million of client’s money and having some of the same issues I heard you speak about I thought I would only manage my own money. But with the lockout clause it puts a totally different perspective on the situation. I have now written the words THINK 180 DEGREE’S on my cork board to remind me that some of the best ideas are in the opposite direction.

May good health always be with you.





Thinking 180 degrees





Thinking 180 degrees





Thinking 180 degrees










Sun, 2 Nov 2003


Hi Ed,

When I saw my "Chat Room" reply on FAQ, I screamed and laughed out aloud in my office!


I had immediate feelings of paranoia, and of being watched. I brought this up as one of the issues I wanted to resolve during the Reno Workshop.


When I had these feelings before, I always second-guessed myself and other people, and I looked at things "from a different angle." I used to be annoyed when someone was getting into my private business and watching what I do, and I always wanted to do things by myself and be left alone.

Before, I was paranoid and "pair-annoyed".

But this time, I felt a warm-sparkling low "buzzing" feeling over my whole body, and I realized that you were supporting me, "looking-out" for me, and helping me to stay on purpose!

Now that I have shared my dream with my friends, they are actively helping me with ideas about systems trading and finding new clients. They never helped me before, because I never told them what my dream was! I feel so much better resolving the feelings of wanting to do everything on my own. Everything is so clear.

Thank you again and everyone at the workshop!





Pair o' Noids


Clip: http://www.burgertoys.com/NOID.GIF

Sun, 2 Nov 2003


Test Request

Hi Ed,

Just to keep you updated with my automatic trading system development. I have taken my Futures system and have added Option buying so that profits can be locked in and the option can also act as a stop loss. I enclose a copy of the system and look forward to any comments you may have.


FAQ does not offer specific trading advice, or recommend specific trading system parameters. See Ground Rules.


If you wish purchase an evaluation of your particular trading system, or receive personal coaching, email me details of what you want.



Ka_Ching !


In a free economy

you can find almost anything

for a price.


Clip: http://www.hosnet.net/images/


Sat, 1 Nov 2003


Starting Capital - Does Size matter

Hello Ed,

First off I want to thank you for all your contributions to the world of trading. It's great to know that traders can still be very successful through trend following.

I will be getting into the market in the near future. I was wondering if $3k is enough to start trading with and if it is would you recommend futures or stocks to start off with?

Thank you in advance,

As with many things, it's not the size of your account, it's how you manage your risk.


For futures, a typical risk for trend trading (with skid and other transaction costs) might easily be in excess of $1,000 per contract.  Setting risk equal to, say 1% of equity, indicates a minimum starting equity of about $100,000.


For stocks, you could buy a $30 stock about 100 times with your $3,000.  If you wish to diversify, say into 10 stocks, you could buy 10 shares of each. Ten share transactions may be subject to relatively high transaction costs.


You might consider investing in a fund, or in a pool, or just paper trading, until such time as you can manage the risk and take advantage of lower transaction costs.


Also, you might consider managing a larger amount; for those who follow the principles of good trading, lots of money just seems to show up.




Works for Baseball


Works for Trading


Clip: http://www.ebankmarketing.com/

Sat, 1 Nov 2003

Hello from Taiwan

Dear Ed,

Do you believe everybody gets what they want out of life as well?

You might be interested in knowing that Chinese, the official language we use here in Taiwan, has present tense only. In case we need to point out the timeframe (the past or the future), we simply add tomorrow, last year, etc. in the sentence.

I ran into your website on March and have been following FAQ since. It took me quite a while to absorb FAQ as well as your other works on risk management, TTP, etc. I thank you for your generosity.

Now, I would like to start a tribe here in my home country, Taiwan.

To facilitate the tribe process, translation of TTP page into Chinese might be a good idea.


I volunteer for doing this under your consent / supervision. You can change anything if you like and of course you keep all the legal rights. I will be using the translation in the tribe, and in the tribe only.

Best regards,







You are now on the

Tribe Directory Page.




Clip: http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/





Yes on the translation. The TTP page is a work in progress. You might send a link to your translation so I can post it as a resource.

Sat, 1 Nov 2003


System and Discretionary Trading

Hi Ed,

I noticed in FAQ (March 9-15 2003) that you mention: "... sitting tight on winning positions ... and sitting out choppy markets."

Is there an element of discretion involved when trading in this manner? If one is to take all signals generated by a system, then wouldn't that invalidate the second part of your statement?

The only way I could see this happening mechanically is by using the following method:

For long trades.

Or does the second portion of your statement actually mean to play smaller
with every losing trade (choppy markets produce a lot of whipsaws) until the risk capital is reduced to something meaningless?

MIN RISK = 0.2%


After a series of losses the system will be trading pretty small.

And finally, do the above mentioned rules have any merit in a trend following system?

Thank you for your great FAQ !

The borderline between system trading and discretionary trading may be delicate, illusory, and basically incomprehensible.


System traders must decide which markets to trade, how many markets to trade, how to roll from one delivery to another when the trends differ, how to deal with equity deposits and withdrawals, etc.  All these decisions may greatly affect performance.


Discretionary traders do the same things over and over, according to some or another plan, whether or not they are consciously aware of it.


In the limit, good traders find a method, based on core principles that they deeply embrace, and that feels good, and they follow it systematically.


Sitting tight on winners and sitting out choppers requires some way to tell them apart, and also requires some way to handle feelings that arise in the process.


See Fractals, above for more on borderlines.





The Borderline May Be Beyond Comprehension