|Feb 10, 2016
Jumping in with Both Feet
to our Tribe meeting I feel edgy, nervous, and unable to focus. It's
the same feeling that comes up before every Tribe meeting: the "I don't
want to do this" feeling. I accept the feeling, and do it anyway.
first hotseat displays laughter, and shares a fear of not being able to
access his feelings. With encouragement from the tribe he gets into
strong forms which transition from laughing to crying. We encourage him
to stay with his forms until he reaches a point which might be a
climax. He recalls being age 3 and unable to communicate with his
father in the hospital. We discover his mother acts as medicinal rock
donor for shutting down. He expresses strong feelings about a recent
hospital encounter when his mother tells him not to cry. We agree to
role play both events, using the more recent event as a rock donation
re-enactment and opportunity to use new resources, then re-enacting the
original scene at age 3 with new resources.
reports feeling astonishment at the accuracy of the role playing,
stating he wasn't in the Tribe meeting, he was back in the hospital.
process moves me deeply as I have shutting down issues with my parents,
which I take full responsibility for. I know I can't change my parents.
I know they respond according to the intentions I radiate. If I want
change, the change must come from me.
Our second hotseat
reports he feels calm and ignores warning signs while trading. This
develops into feeling like a fraud, and not wanting to feel like he has
to keep up appearances. We trace this back to an event at age 3 when he's hit for spilling a drink.
Hotseat is very willing to get into feelings, though does not want to
role play the event. I feel a tear in my eye which reminds me of the
care, willingness to feel and share feelings, and personal
responsibility it takes to raise children. Anything less may pass on
behavior patterns that can hold them back for the rest of their lives.
complete a goal exercise with our newest member. Prior to the tribe
meeting, he expresses doubt about being able to acquire a drum on short
notice. We use the goal-setting template of: (A) What is my condition
now, and (B) What specific condition do I desire, noting any feelings
that come up on the path between A & B. He shows up with his new drum.
third hotseat shares self-confidence issues. He says everyone seems to
believe in him, but he doesn't believe in himself. After a few minutes
of getting into forms, he recalls being in a doctor's office at a very
young age. He can remember the exam room in fine detail, down to the
color of the paint on the walls and an amber jar of iodine on the
shelf, but can't remember anything else - who's there, what he's
feeling, or what's happening. Tribe encourages hotseat to go further
and this elicits memories of his
mother bursting in his room in the middle of the night, turning the
bright light above his bed, and screaming at him. We do not
start a rocks process as we approach the already extended ending time.
He realizes if he wants confidence and success, he must be willing to
enjoy the feelings of a spotlight shining on him.
I wish to
thank the Tribe members for being willing, active and helpful
participants in all processes. I feel happy that our new members are
willing to jump into TTP with both feet.
|Thank you for sharing your process and for documenting your meeting.
|Feb 10, 2016
Ed, (bcc support team and my local tribe)
Thank you for your support with my workshop follow up. My thanks to those who provide such useful comments and feedback.
I commit to
"Work hard on my trading systems for three hours a day: See what feelings come up. Report ... to my support team and FAQ."
This starts from Ed's comment at the workshop - approximately "Are you actually serious about trading?"
I average just over 3 hours a day in the past three months and now
average slightly under 3 hours a day (2.98 hours) since the workshop. I
previously put in place a system for trading ETFs on stock indexes,
which works well.
* I perform a roll-forward test, which
generates bad results: -10% per year compound with standard deviation
of about 30%. I feel glad that I do this roll-forward test rather than
find this out with real money. This prompts a rethink of my approach.
My approach to dealing with over-fitting needs to change because the
over-fitting persists in spite of my efforts, which causes the poor
performance. I adopt an ensemble approach as an alternative for
avoiding over-fitting and this works.
* I then complete a
successful roll-forward test, on two slightly different systems, to
9/2011 with very satisfactory, but not world beating, return and
volatility / risk from both systems. I then buy the data from
9/2011-1/2016 for a true out of sample test. I do not have this data on
my computer during the other testing so I hope I do not snoop into it
in any substantial way. The out of sample tests run as I write this.
I feel a bit anxious about the results of this test after all the work I do.
Still to do: Complete out of sample test in the next few days. Buy and
set up data feeds and daily runs. Paper trade for a few months. Add
funding to the account and trade live.
* My short term
health is very good. Longer term I have a slow-growing cancer which
does not seriously threaten my health or life in the short term, but
without treatment there is a 20% chance it kills me within 15 years.
Treatment options do not appeal at all but at the moment the doctor
recommends "active surveillance" only and no treatment. I spend a lot
of time researching the issue and agree with his assessment.
cut my weight down to 71kg from 75kg with a target of 67kg. I achieve
this weight loss using Robert Kegan's book "Right Weight, Right Mind".
I also find his ideas about personal change extremely helpful e.g., in
"In Over Our Heads: The Mental Demands of Modern Life".
My doctor tells me getting my weight down will help with the prognosis of the cancer.
My other projects progress well. I finish second year physics at last,
which I am studying on my own. I feel great joy on reaching this
milestone. I find thermodynamics a challenge. I then commence learning
the math for 3rd year physics. I am enjoying this and I don't find it
too hard. I have people who regularly keep me accountable - weekly
monthly or longer depending on the context.
Overall I feel very happy and productive.
next report on 10th May 2016 - in three months. I plan to continue my
reports at this frequency until I have either started trading futures
or I give up.
|Thank you for sharing your process.
|Feb 9, 2016
Rocks Process: Dread in the Workplace
had an important experience on our newly reformulated tribe on Thursday
of last week. I waited a few days to send this report in to try to
process all of my feelings. I still have some processing to do. I
realize that I do not express feelings readily so I am working on this.
met on time with our four person Tribe. Did the drumming and the check
in once then we went around the room to express feelings and issues. It
appeared that myself and TM3 were expressing some immediate issues. I
know that I am very hot with my work issue. I went first. Since I am
new to the process, I am feeling a lot of things. Trepidation and doubt
about the process. These are people I am just getting to know. What if
I make a fool of myself, what if I don’t? At the same time I am feeling
severe pain and discomfort and dread about my work.
I am in a situation where the people I work with are attacking me
mostly without merit, sometimes with merit. But I know that nothing I
have done warrants this kind of treatment. It is a living nightmare. A constant yet inconsistent barrage of assaults.
I feel like I am trapped, I can’t leave the company. I have a
successful career built over decades. I have a family that is dependent
on me. I have always taken care of my obligations and have given my
family a good life. I can’t stay, but the situation is driving me insane with dread, fear, misery.
I can’t move within the company at least not now. No options are
available to me. And I believe that I have a blind spot for these type
of situations somehow.
We start the process I feel flushed, and it’s like my head is in a cloud or a bubble. My face is warm, I can hear the other members giving me the acknowledgement.
It is like they are far away in the distance, but I can also feel their
close presence. I get more and more into the feeling, I am surrounded
by this cloud. Clenching my jaw more and more. My body is crinkling up,
into a small figure, arms are contorted, head is down and eyes closed.
The cloud is getting thicker. I feel
my arms drawn in so tight that they are aching now. I am in some kind
of altered state, but I can hear everything that is going on. PM
tells me to freeze and then asks quietly where I am. I am still
crinkled up, I say nothing. They prompt me again, I see my living room
of my parents’ house when I was 12. The Tribe prompts me some more. I
am sitting on the couch and talking with my dad. I know what is about
to happen. I remember this day well. He wants to have a heart to heart
conversation with me.
This is something new he usually just
used intimidation or violence, not conversation and reason. So he
calmly tells me I am ungrateful and how he has done so much for me. As
if he is reasoning with me. Then he mentions how much money he has
spent on me. By this time I had been working odd jobs for two years
earning my own money. So I responded back to him that I will pay him
back. This was not what he was looking for. But I did not know this at
the time. Then he got furious and jumped on me. Beat my ass
pretty good. This was a massive
betrayal for my father to act as if he wanted to have a conversation
when what he really wanted is complete subservience. He tricked
me, then he abused me and then acted as if I had done something wrong.
If there were rules to this game, I sure did not know what they
were. This was my AHA moment, to realize that FRED was colluding
with other FREDS to put me into these no win situations. It was a
powerful experience. We role played this with TM3 acting as me first,
and TM2 acting as my mother, and PM as my dad. Then
with me and then again successfully handling the issue foregiving the
shut down rock from my mother. And receiving the heart rock. We did a couple of check outs along the way.
was exhausted after this experience. We went through a rocks process
with TM3 and his mother. It was centered around her verbally abusing
him. Embarrassing him in front of other people. A pattern that
continues till this day. He just accepts it with guilt and no
complaint. He received his medicinal response pattern for this abuse
from his grandmother. This was something TM3 figured out in the process
and was a big AHA for him. His mother is near death and is still
abusing him. So we did the Rocks Process I played his mother. It was a
good experience for me to be a receiver and to understand and watch
someone else’s process.
After the meeting I feel different but difficult to describe at first.
I feel tired, but more at peace. I am clutching my heart rock through
the next day and the weekend. Now I just put it in my pocket every day.
Two significant things happen immediately the next day.
1) A close friend and very competent executive within my company is
moved into the upper leadership above these evil people that have been
causing me problems. This is big, in corporate America “who you know”
is your lifeblood. 2) When talking with my manager the next day he is treating me very different right off the bat without any prompting from me. He is acting more professional, more like a real manager, more sympathetic. But the biggest issue is that I
do not have this sense of dread, or impending doom, in my mind worried
about what was going to happen next. Before it was like someone
punching me in the stomach but I did not know where the punch was
coming from or when. Now it was gone. This alone is huge.
is something that is potentially life changing. But I believe I have a
ways to go. More issues to work through. More feelings to
release. More processes to work through. I have worked for many
years and tried many things in my DIM path, sometimes talking with a
therapist, but mostly on my own. Meditation, diet, exercise,
self-observation, more reading than you can imagine. But this was
significant. Chief I can’t thank you enough. Your selfless giving back
to us is immeasurable. And to my Tribe I could not do this
without them. Thanks for dragging me (literally) through this.
Thanks for the AHA.
|Thank you for sharing your process.
Congratulations to you and to your Tribe and to your Process Manager.
Adaptation and Endurance
Some photos - extending my work with adapting to cold.
|Thank you for sending me your cool photos.
In following the trend, do you feel the counter trend moves pull at
your intentions also?
you for raising this issue.
In Trend Trading, we do not measure or respond to counter-trend moves.
We stay with the trend until it changes, at which point we respond.
You might consider taking your feelings about <outguessing your
system> to Tribe.
Infidelity and Fore-Giveness
I read an FAQ post about Forgiveness (Jan 30, 2016) and your response
to this person.
am trying to review my own path in the last 2.5 years to see where I
could have done things differently because I do not want to make the
same mistakes again.
I’m thinking about the 3. Judging /
Take Responsibility part about viewing the other party as a mirror of
our own intentions. I’m trying to understand what that means.
I think I made a mistake in 2. Drift (not ending it early on) and now I
am presently in 3. Judging / Taking Responsibility.
human interaction, there is a certain level of faith and trust we give
to the person we interact with. Instead of engaging in ‘ritual of
collecting evidence’, I thought it was enough that I came across
evidence without looking for it, to ask the person outright if X was
going on when things didn’t make sense (E.g in this case cheating) and
that if he wanted to, to please let me know so I can exit the
relationship to protect my health.
I do not understand why
he could not have just exited the relationship by telling me he was
with another woman all this time from the beginning, I am unsure why he
would still encourage me to move overseas and tell me he loves me every
day, and that he is extremely happy I am in his life.
When I asked him, he said he thought he was ‘cured’ from his sexual
promiscuity when he met me, and thought things would be ok.
am unsure in all those time where I should have taken my exit point
when I didn’t have any clear proven evidence because I didn’t go
looking for it, and he had a reason for everything that seemed valid,
and that he was convincing that nothing was happening. To function in
relationships we have to have a certain level of trust.
the end of the 2.5 years I find myself going through a ‘cataloguing’
process of all our past memories with this person and realising that
all the evidence was there, I just believed all his excuses for it. I
don’t know why I did this. I took the scientific approach and if there
was no conclusive proof, then I couldn’t deduce anything – and I
ignored my instincts.
2 weeks ago I was emailed from someone
trying to protect me telling me that he was in a relationship for a
long time with many women and to look at his Skype. I approached him
and he denied, swearing on this daughter’s head that he wasn’t a liar.
I thought he would admit it at that point. I then engaged in the
‘collecting evidence’ and found all the lies over all these years from
After he was found out, he cried that he was ’54 and
stuffed up again, and had nothing to live for’. That he was diagnosed
as having the traits of a serial killer and a psychopath and he was
doing the best he could.
The next day he made excuses for
why he did what he did, and used another famous person as a role model
– saying he did the same thing, and he is still very successful, and
that most of this friends did the same thing.
through the TTP view on how to approach relationship, I am still
confused as to the point at which I left my boundaries in the dark. I
understand 500% that the long distance relationship has helped cloud it
all. If we had moved in years ago, I would have exited sooner.
left and moved back to my country, telling him that I am sorry for all
that has happened, and that I hope he is happy with the decisions that
he has made.
I have a Tribe meeting in 2 weeks, and I want it to be productive and I
do not want to be a victim.
do not want to use it as a venting session. I think maybe my entry
point is somewhere along the lines of I ignore my instincts or depend
too much on the honesty of others and that they have my best intentions
in mind as well.
I thought I knew my boundaries and I
expressed them to him clearly when these things came up, but he
re-assured me with a convincing logical reason.
you for sharing your process.
You might consider taking your feelings about <trust> and
<infidelity> to Tribe as entry points.
In the TTP rocks process, we do not forgive the perpetrator in the
sense of offering absolution or suspending consequences.
identify our own Rocks (response patterns) and then fore-give them back
to their donors. This helps to free us from having to attract and
participate in a recursion of the same drama - either with the same or
with a different partner.
notice when I tell other people my underlying true feelings, I tend to
repeat talking about it and add more. I recall in Austin Tribe you
teach me to tell my feeling in few simple words, then pause and looking
at other people and keep quiet.
It reminds me of the
pyramiding or adding more-on, well trained TTP practitioners know how
much to risk and might not need to add mor-on. So far my simulation
doesn’t show advantage on adding mor-on in terms of Bliss.
I might take my feelings of wanting to say more, wanting to add more as
the entry into my Tribe meetings.
you for sharing your process.
Dear Mr. Ed Seykota!
My name is [Name] and I am 23 year old. I am from Slovenia (EU).
study law at University of Ljubljana (I only have to write a degree
paper) but my true passion is trading. I have been trading for the last
4 years and I am really aspired about trend following and I love to
create new trading systems.
I am writing you because I
really admire you and your career. Your way of thinking is unique and I
really enjoy reading your “interviews”.
My favourite quote
of yours is: The markets are the same now as they were five to ten
years ago because they keep changing – just like they did then.
was wondering if you have a spare 15 minutes for a young trader who
would love to hear your story and any advice you may have regarding
trading and trend following and networking with other trend followers.
you have some time I would love to talk with you. I would also love to
invite you to a good lunch, so if you will by chance come to Slovenia,
you know where you can get one.
Have a nice day!
you for sending me your kind words and your invitations to:
1. Compress my story and advice about trading and networking into 15
2. Have lunch with you in Slovenia.
an interim solution, you might consider having lunch at 7:00 PM
Slovenia time (12:00 Noon, here in Austin - about when I have lunch)
and listening to the Whipsaw Song.
you have you system, traded it for many years, happy with it etc...but
you wonder if the paramaters you use to enter/exit are optimal? How can
you test for this? Without tinkering with the system too much or
breaking the rules how do you find if your system rules are optimal?
eg I look for stocks that have doubled in the past 300
days...but could this be better?
you for raising this issue.
and in your imaginings, you can do something differently in the past
and them get a different and more optimal result, now.
Practically, in the now, you can only do what you do, including, if you
like, thinking about changing the way you operate
If you would like to find an "optimal" system, you might consider
starting with a definition of what optimal means for you, now.
Once upon a time, one snowy winter evening while you stoked a roaring
fire during an Incline Village Tribe meeting, I recall you advising I
affirm 'winning'. I went home, wrote 'WINNING' on a paper,
pinned it on my office wall, and focused. Within a
week, the most extraordinary out-of-the-blue event
happened: a Steeler's halfback let me wear his four
rings and take a picture.
Rocky Bleier won Super Bowl IX and X, fought in Vietnam, was wounded in
both legs and told he would never play again. He
trained obsessively, and came back to win XIII and XIV, giving an extra
special meaning to these ultimate American symbols of winning, these
you for sharing your process.
|To Top of Page