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Questions

(Quotes from Ed in Red)

Answers

Sun, 31 Oct 2004

Sat, 30 Oct 2004

Sending Feelings & Paths to Zero Point

Hello Ed,

I have not yet participated in a tribe meeting. I read the accounts of people in the hot seat. I notice feelings are usually solicited in the form of physical sensations (i.e. pain in the stomach, pain in the side, etc) & less in terms of descriptions - such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. I wonder if feelings, in terms of physical sensations, are more informative & useful in the TT Process?

Perhaps my sample size is too small to draw such a conclusion. I ask this question with the intention of better understanding the process.

On a different note - I assume individuals, outside of the Tribe, attain states of being & self-knowledge, similar to the condition of Zero Point. I have in mind the Buddha & others of similar nature. I assume they are of the DIM variety, or something other than TTP. Any thoughts on this? I have used the DIM method with limited success. I am excited about the TTP.

You can read all about riding a bicycle, and you can understand all about riding a bicycle, and still not know how to ride a bicycle.

Understanding is incidental to TTP. To engage the process, get into a Tribe and onto the hot seat.

The history of Buddha (Siddartha Gautama) seems to include numerous teachers, colleagues and students - as well as quality alone time.

Buddha

Still on the Hot Seat

Clip: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/

religious_studies/Buddhism/DEFA/

Art/BUDDHA.GIF

Sat, 30 Oct 2004

Position Sizing


The calculation of position size is large for very small differences between entry stops and protective sell stops.

When BS – SS = 0.01, the formula “(Q) = 1/2 % * E / RPS,” results in placing all of ones equity in a single instrument.

Yes. You can mediate this effect by including some "skid" in your risk formulation.

In case of stock trading, where margins may approximate 50% of the stock price, you might find your net equity also limits your trading.

Happy Travelers and Traders

allow for some skid

Clip: http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/

~hdinwidd/skid%20mark.JPG

Thu, 28 Oct 2004

Goals / Going with the Flow

Dear Mr. Seykota,

Do you see any conflict between goal setting and going with the flow in one's life? To what extent do you believe we determine the course of our lives.

You can go with the flow to achieve your goals; you may include goal setting as part of your flow.

Predestination and Free Will, like Time, do not exist in nature other than as thoughts we use to organize our experience - and occasionally, our religious institutions.

John Calvin (1509-64)

Calvin, a lawyer by training, reorganizes the Protestant church and introduces the notions of predestination, doctrine of the elect and doctrine of living saints.

Predestination is the notion that God knows the (non-existing) future and may elect some of us to sainthood while others are not quite so fortunate.

Clip: www.kenanderson.net/ bible/john_calvin.html

Thu, 28 Oct 2004

Wanting a Reason

Hello Ed,

I find that when I think about the process of trading (where my stops are, leverage), I feel much less stressed (or even no stress) than when I obsess over the outcome (money aspect), i.e. how much I would like the account to grow to.

Reasons are justifications we tell ourselves, sometimes each other, to maintain our identity in a drama.

Reasons indicate k-nots.

I am willing to accept your experience, without a reason. 

Be Sure to Fill Up on Reasons

in case you need to justify yourself

and / or win approval

Clip: http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/

pix/subversive/reason-bran.gif

Thu, 28 Oct 2004

Donchian's 'Weekly Rule System'

Donchian's Two Week Rule:

Every Friday, note the high and low for the previous two weeks.

 

If short or out, place an order to buy, good through next Friday above the high; if long, place one to sell, below the low.

The Three-Week Rule is similar, as are all the other Weekly Rules.

Wed, 27 Oct 2004

Triangle


Ed Says: Modern society teaches us to suppress our feelings. We learn to hide them, substitute them, disguise them and desensitize ourselves from them. We strive to disconnect our feelings from our logic. People tell us, "you shouldn't feel that way." Men are supposed to hold back tears and women are supposed to hold back anger. ...

When this interruption of the transfer of experience occurs, Fred continues to replay the experience, at higher and higher levels, to try to inform CM. ...

CM may associate the feeling as dangerous in itself and want to block it out. CM may even program Fred to set up a "Judge" to block the feeling, thus creating a K-not, that ties up (knot) the feeling as something not good.

Nevertheless, Fred keeps trying to communicate the experience to CM, and raises the intensity, of the effort. Fred turns up the pressure on the "Feelings Pump." ... Eventually, Fred may resort to engaging the outside world, and arranging a Drama. ... As the drama unfolds, it provokes the very same set of feelings, so you find yourself, amazingly and exasperatingly, in exactly the situation you dislike, again and again.


Ed,


I find myself into longstanding situational drama. I guess I still have some wounds from the past. It has to do with girls. First, when I was about 12-13, I fall in love with a girl and sent her some flowers as I wanted to date her. Her parents didn't allow me as I was told that we were too young.

Then, about 5 years ago, I fall in love with another girl. The problem was that she already had a boyfriend, and concealed the fact from me. I don't know exactly what her feelings about me were like and I felt there was a mutual attraction. Yet I got very, very angry then, and I was very tough with myself and her. I almost caused a disruption in her relationship just out of hatred.

The common theme though is that I have always been very tough with my own feelings out of several negative emotional experiences in the past. Over the past few years I have been trying to re-frame my attitudes and outlook on the emotional life to more positive and receptive ones. Yet, I keep finding myself in the old drama of love triangles. My issue is that the old ticker is already feeling suffocated and tired out of all this and I start to feel "disheartened" about it.

Note: although I used the _expression "love triangle", that may not be the case though. So, a better expression would be "relationship dramas" or something like that. Typically, the girl likes me and not her boyfriend.

You might consider taking your feelings about wanting to be with someone who is with someone else into the process.

You might even confer with your girl friend, and with her significant other, if you dare, in the spirit of locating the feelings you have in k-nots.

They, too are likely working out their own dramas by having you appear in their relationship.

When you become willing to experience your own forms about the matter, you gain choice and might be able to try some new angles.

Menage à Turkey

Each bird needs the other two

in order to set up its own drama.

Clip: http://www.4huntingdepot.com/

image/products/big-pics/2011606.jpg

Wed, 27 Oct 2004

Asian Theater

Hi Ed,

I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been reading much about you and your trading style for some time now. I have been working in Asia since 1994 on the trading side for major global brokers. I am curious to know if you work with many traders based in Hong Kong?

I see there are a few communities of traders in Taiwan, Australia, and Japan. Japan is one of my main interests. Great long/short market and lots of market activity.

I've developed a long/short equity trading model - mean reversion and trend momentum based. Would be interested to hear your thoughts about it at some stage.

Just wanted to take this time to thank you for all your great tips and hints from your website.

You are welcome.  People write to FAQ from all over the world.

Tue, 26 Oct 2004

Tribe in Melbourne

Hi Ed,


I was reading “Trend Following” by Michael Covel, which I purchased this week, when I learnt about the Trading Tribe. I have looked at trading and personal development as being inseparable for some time. You are right …. it is a good idea to get together with fellow traders to share experiences and therefore to grow.

A guy like you must be very waddling through emails so I’ll keep it short.

My surprise was …. that “Emotional Intelligence” and “Reminiscences of a Stock Operator” were together on your web site, as they are my most prized possessions. This is very encouraging sign for me.

Having suffered from toxic parents and other delusions Amazon will get another order from me soon.

With your permission I’m going to start the Trading Tribe in Melbourne, Australia. Can you put my name on your web site and hopefully other traders in my area will get together.

Yes. Send your contact information, including an email address suitable for publication.

Tue, 26 Oct 2004

Neither one is a method; both are notions.  They become methods when you integrate them into a discipline.

Tue, 26 Oct 2004

Objectivism & 24 Hour Trading

Hi Ed,

Firstly, I thank you for the contribution you make to the trading community. I am not aware of anyone who is helping so much while directly asking for so little.

I have two questions to ask you.

(1) I have recently read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and truly enjoyed learning about her philosophy called Objectivism. I was surprised to experience a deep positive emotional response to her philosophy. I am assuming you have read the book. I am interested in your opinion of Objectivism.

(2) My partner and I have been developing trading systems and testing software over the last 18 months. We now find we need to make a decision which I hope you might help us with. We have many decades of historical futures data to back test our system but this data does not reflect today's reality of almost 24 hour markets.

We have to decide whether to restrict the trading of our system to the day session or to trade the electronic sessions as well. In our opinion the 24 hour trading has not been around long enough for any valid historical testing. While I can see advantages and disadvantages to both ways, I have this nagging voice saying "you can't test a system in one type of environment (the day session) and then expect the results to apply in a different one (24 hour trading)". I would appreciate your thoughts on the issue.

Thanks,

(1) Objectivism holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification.

Both objectivism and Ayn Rand in her personal life seem to have trouble with computations about love.

(2) The markets seem to keep doing the same kinds of things, no matter where or when they trade or how we measure them.

A Fancy New 24-Hour Clock

might lead you to think

that the markets are somehow different.

Clip: http://www.canaries-live.com/

media/time.jpg

Mon, 25 Oct 2004

Patterns

Hi Ed!


(1) I use a moving average and mean price to time the pattern breakouts.

(2) Fibo levels to locate stops that move when the market moves

Translating your notions of "patterns" to computer code may help you clarify your thinking.

Sat, 23 Oct 2004

Children

Chief,

Do we learn to teach our kids or are we taught to learn ?

Sincerely,

In the moment, the one is the other.

Fri, 22 Oct 2004

Yes, TTP seems compatible with many practices of personal growth.

Tantra means method or path. 

Lately, tantra connotes the practice of developing the feminine aspect of sexuality.

Tantric Sex and Trend Trading

Both dance with the dream

of being able to stay on task

during the entire campaign.

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Your Visitation System

Fri, 22 Oct 2004

October 2003 Workshop Update

Dear Ed,

It’s been a year since the October 2003 workshop in Reno—here’s a summary of the progress I’ve made since then:

If you’ll recall, I was a “day trader” back then. A mechanical intraday stock trading system had worked very well for me during the period 1998—2001. However, that system’s profitability slowly evaporated. (In hindsight, this was as inevitable as night following day.) I endured the better part of two years barely profitable and increasingly frustrated as I vacillated between various short-term trading approaches. By the summer of 2003, I was at the end of my trading rope—I spent all day in front of the screen obsessing over ticks, my stomach contorted, my thoughts a roller coaster of emotion. At the end of the trading day I was left spent and dejected—there wasn’t a lot of energy left for my wife and kids.

I had memorized the Market Wizards books from cover to cover, I could quote passages from “Reminiscences of a Stock Trader,” I had spent thousands of dollars on trading seminars, logged thousands of hours analyzing charts, indicators and systems. Yet there I sat a marginal trader. It seems that I knew all about successful trading—I just couldn’t trade successfully.

I remember discovering your Trading Tribe site and reading something you wrote along the lines of: “Your own psychology is likely to contribute more to your success than your system.” This hit me as absolutely true. As I read other traders’ experiences with TTP, I realized I should explore the process. Nonetheless, I was ambivalent about attending the workshop. TTP seemed a bit exotic--the idea of revealing emotions publicly to strangers made my stomach churn. However, with encouragement from my wife, I summoned the courage and signed-up.

At the workshop, I was initially very self-conscious and uncomfortable. In my daily life, I had been displaying a façade of confidence and success to my trading friends and peers. It was not easy to drop this veneer. But, as the workshop went on, I gradually came to accept the awkwardness that I felt as I revealed my feelings of doubt and low self-esteem. As the workshop progressed, it felt very refreshing to interact free of the facade. To share feelings with a non-judgmental, empathetic group of peers was a wonderful thing.

My “snapshot” I chose during the workshop was “integrative trading.” I wanted to make stock trading a part of my life, not my entire life. I did not want to be distracted when my family deserved my full attention. At the workshop, I realized that crucial to reinventing my trading was an honest examination of the emotions that were driving my trading and my life. The TTP allowed me to do this. With the help of the receivers at the workshop, I understood that I had been hyper-trading as a way to keep myself from feeling lots of stuff.

While high on price action, I was avoiding lots of “bad” feelings. Of course, as I’ve come to appreciate, they couldn’t be avoided indefinitely--Fred doesn’t like to be ignored. (I’m reminded of the old margarine commercial: “It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature!) Fred kept turning up the intensity to the point that either I quit day trading or something was gonna blow.

Anyway, a year after the October 2003 workshop, I have realized my snapshot: I created a trading style that was right for me. I no longer day trade. I have developed a very simple stock trading system: I buy when I get a signal, put on a trailing stop, and hold until the trend ends. Manage the risk. Over the last year my average holding period has been three weeks. I’ve held many positions well over a month. An eternity for a former day trader!

Fri, 22 Oct 2004

Fri, 22 Oct 2004

Bible Class

The forbidden comestible is from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The admonition is: don't eat judgment fruit.

Partaking of the Tree

of Understanding

Expensive for Adam and Eve.

Expensive for Traders.

Clip: http://www.fractalus.com/

kerry/gallery2/tree.html

Fri, 22 Oct 2004

Yes.

Risk Management Clarifies

when you are willing

to experience your stomach.

Clip: http://myke.trecento.com/

arc_img/people/hodge_christina/tummy.jpg

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Yes. Gustav Le Bon talks about the powerful effects of a group on the individual.  We also use this effect in TTP to facilitate personal growth.

All in Favor Say, "Aye."

Aye, Aye, Aye, Aye

In some organizations, members learn to  think one thing and say another.

In The Trading Tribe, we use group pressure

to encourage members to align and experience their own feelings.

http://www.tc-forum.org/

images/tc-forum/001-1.gif

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Depression

Dear Ed,

Last night on the hot seat I fully experienced depression and sadness by going through in first person what it likes with my fiancée on her deathbed.

I don't have a clear message for its positive intention though. I somewhat feel that it is a warning signal about pending or even existing threats to something that is important to me, and thus help me stay focus to what I have NOW. Is my session "complete" if I cannot arrive at a crystal clear positive intention message? Thanks.

As an aside, I was struggling to really experience the feelings and was pondering quitting (I guess that's one effective way to avoid feelings) until one receiver asked, "Are you willing to experience depression?"

You might consider taking your desire to complete things into the process.

Empathy can be a form of understanding, agreement and, ultimately judgment.

TTP simply acknowledges forms without trying to understand or judge them.

Stopping to develop understanding and empathy generally interferes with TTP.

Empathy Belly

This multi-component, weighted “garment” enables female and male wearers to simulate and “experience” more than 20 of the typical symptoms and effects of pregnancy.

Through this hands-on, experiential type of learning, wearers find out what it feels like to be pregnant and gain a realistic understanding of the changes and demands imposed by the pregnant condition.

Clip: http://con.uc.edu/cater/

Skillssim/database.htm

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Trending Sectors -vs- Correlation

Ed,

Yes.  At the moment two markets simultaneously hit buy stops, they correlate tightly, particularly in the very short term.

To diversify, include an instrument that breaks out while others sleep.

For example, take stocks from different sectors - or commodities from different groups.

Silver and soybeans might break out the same day and thus correlate well in the very short term. 

A portfolio of silver and soybeans provides more diversification that a portfolio of silver and, say, more silver.  

The opposite of diversification is plunging, betting it all on one horse.

Hedging Guide For Plungers

according to Oklahoma Slim.

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Weird Science

Ed,

It is interesting to me that the work of Bohm is mentioned a couple of time in recent FAQs. His work, along with Pribram's and a few others has always resonated well with TTP for me. In fact, I gave you a book at the last workshop that explores the holographic model of the universe. I did not know I was going to give you that book when I brought it along with me to Reno. I did not even know why I brought it, other than to occupy me on airplanes, etc.

The workings of the under Fred network are mysterious when viewed from the perspective of the traditional model, but elementary under the holographic every-piece-as-the-whole model.

Yes. TTP practitioners who have relationship AHA's routinely report Bohm Phenomena: an associate inexplicably changing, simultaneously, at a distance.

The "Simultaneous" Go Master

is actually just playing

Fast-Cycle Sequential Go

Clip: http://www.european-go.org/

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Trading Team

Hi Ed,

I read FAQ this morning and notice a passage that implies you have an intention "to develop a team of traders the likes of which the world has never seen." I am writing to let you know that I am pleased to be a part of the team.

Your intention (I assume it is yours, though it may just be all of us) seems to be manifesting as results. I anticipate more dramatic results as we / you continue to clarify the intention. I know I am part of the team, as I speak to other traders from the May workshop that have similar intentions and results.

OK.

A Team is a Group

that works together

to accomplish things

like helping the coach

to stand up again.

Clip: http://www.iit.edu/alumni/updates/

yearbook/1940s/images/

illinois%20tech%20basketball%20team

%201946.jpg

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Exploring

Thu, 21 Oct 2004

Man and Machine

All mechanical systems have some discretion and all discretionary accounts are subject to the mechanical nature of the trader.

Elliott Wave does not appear to predict anything; it tends to serve as justification for  hunches.

The Borderline

between man and machine

is fundamentally ambiguous.

Clip: http://www2.unil.ch/fra/HistLitt/

Cours/XVIII-XIX/18-1.Machine.htm