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Questions

(Quotes from Ed in Red)

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

August 2006 Breathwork Weekend

Moving Toward a Relationship

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Losing interest in Pornography

See previous

Ed, I feel I am losing interest in pornography. Yet I am still home alone daydreaming about having a relationship with either of two girls I am fond of.

The word, Pornography comes from Greek πορνογραφια = pornographia -- literally writing about or drawings of harlots.

One of the properties of pornography is the dehumanization of women, the reduction of women to their sexual aspect.

Your reference to women as bitches might also tend to dehumanize women.

You might consider taking your feelings about women to the hot seat.

You are More Likely

to attract and maintain

a healthy relationship

once you deal with your own anger.

Clip: http://www.lssofny.org/Counseling/

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Breathwork Report

Relaxing and Following the System

Dear Ed,

Thank you very much for the Breathwork weekend. It was an extraordinary experience. Some experiences I wanted, a few I am not sure I wanted and many I am still digesting.

It was wonderful to make contact with some great people all working to resolve their own personal issues. I would like to thank them all for their support & encouragement.

Much of the time was spent doing “tough” work. This has completely changed my outlook on life. I am now much more relaxed about my Trading System – I accept its flaws & its drawdowns. I let trades run to fruition & above all else I actually follow it.

Curiously the same is reflected in my attitude to life – I accept my flaws & avoid dramas. I accept the heat of disappointments and avoid jubilation dramas.

Thank you very much for our conversations during the hike, I received many valuable AHAs during the hike.

Breathwork is a life changing experience which continues to enhance & improve my life.

Thank you Ed, I salute you for what you made possible for me.

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Acknowledgement


Please forward to Ed Seykota, or if this is Ed directly I just wanted to say a quick hello and thank you for being the most inspiring person in Michael Covel's book "Trend Following".

I have included the message and reply that I just sent Michael, so I wanted to forward it to you. Your humor absolutely delights me and has me roaring.

I laughed so hard, it was the best healing.

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Breathwork Follow Up

Not Good Enough / Anger / Boundaries

Hi Ed,

I hope this finds you well, please see attached my follow up report. I am plugged into my feelings, not enjoying them all but getting the results I came to IV for. The heat sits on my face for the past two days since I started writing this report.

Your work on rocks look interesting and relevant to rewriting some of the script. Do you intend to include this in your workshops/next book?

Thanks again for showing me the path.

Regards,
 

Breathwork Follow-up Report

I leave Incline with a commitment to feel my feelings, reduce drama in my life and feel my anger. I am aware of my feelings and I stop blocking them as before. I do not get dragged into dramatic situations or manipulative games by others and step back pretty fast when this happens. I feel aloof or distant at times but I start to enjoy it and feel good as I have more peace of mind. I slip on some occasions but notice it and step back again. I don’t need approval so much anymore and I don’t criticize myself as harshly as before.

I commit to cut out a lot of things that do not add value to my life including counterproductive dramatic relationships. My circle of friends / acquaintances shrinks as I change attitude and behavior towards them. I have realigned several relationships, the one specific case that created turmoil before is now in synch according to a way that I am comfortable with.

I come into conflict and feel my anger much more than before, I initially feel uncomfortable about this. On one occasion my face really heats up as I sit on my desk and have images of the support and encouragement from the tribe during the Breathwork.

I enjoy this and feel better about coming into conflict where necessary. I notice some kind of resentment and anger towards my mother, feelings that are there for a while but I am unwilling to externalize. She is just as unemotional and unwilling to feel and ha always taught me to practice patience and everything will be ok. I notice that too much patience maybe part of the process of tying ones anger into a knot and allowing others to knock down personal boundaries.   

The Breathwork has a cathartic effect regarding trauma in early life; I am fine with this particular issue and feel this is at rest. The Breathwork uncovers other issues I am not aware of before.

Fred and CM fight it out regularly, feeling anger, pain and sadness is not normal and is a big struggle at times; especially on weekends. I don’t enjoy these feelings and in some cases I feel disoriented and dazed while some very uncomfortable feelings and memories come up – quite a lot of DIM goes on and I am irritated easily. I may not have fully confronted my anger issues. The past two weeks are even a bigger struggle as I revert to suppressing my feelings on some occasions. I have a tough time.

My dislike for weekends intensifies more than ever when I am not keeping myself busy doing some kind of work, exercise etc. I have an issue about keeping still or doing nothing – I tie myself up! I set unrealistic targets for myself, over commit and set myself up for more drama by performing badly in my personal commitments. I am also more aware of the possibility that I may not be aligned with my snapshots and intend to explore and clarify what I am really after rather than press on stubbornly. What is my right livelihood? I want to find out!

While I work on realizing my snapshots I have feelings that I am not worthy of achieving these goals, that I am aiming a bit too high for myself. Images of a time when I was 10-yrs old and failed a maths test when my father was shouting at me come up. He tells me that I will never achieve anything in life and that I should become a manual labourer rather than do anything that requires use of my brain as I am not very good at using it. I feel frustrated and angry about this as I know the answers to additions such as 6 + 6 but write them the other way round e.g. 21 instead of 12.

 I drown in anger, unable to help myself and totally speechless as I stand and watch. A form I take when confronted as an adult. 

I notice how these same feelings turn up when I make good progress in my personal lif / career. I stop myself from growing as a result of the “you’re not worthy / you’re not good enough” label. I feel heat in my face as I write this which intensifies the more I think about this, the heat sits on my cheeks all day long. Writing this feels like being on the hot seat.

Thank you for the support and the continuous development of your work. I am interested in knowing more about rocks and willing to go through the process.

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Report from The Significant Other

of a Tribe Member

Over the past several weeks, [Name] and I have been much happier, closer, and more sincere and caring to each other. 

He has been less resistant to my emotions and is accepting me—good and bad.  He encourages me to share my emotions with him and accepts my negative feelings (e.g., frustration, sadness) now, more readily than he had previously. 

I have been working on making myself happy, developing a clearer understanding of myself, and recognizing what I need to do for that to happen.  I feel like [Name] has been more able to commit himself to our relationship.  I don’t feel like I have to “rope him in” as much as I did previously, both because he is here already, and because I am becoming content in my own right. 

We both outlined goals that we want from the relationship and things that we want from each other, and have been meeting weekly to talk about our relationship, update goals, etc.  We have been following through with this plan every week, with the exception of one, which had an obvious effect. 

When disagreements or minor arguments have occurred, they have remained just that secondary to an acknowledgment on both of our parts on how to express ourselves more effectively and be sensitive to each other’s feelings.  I’m really proud of us for recognizing what we need to do, seeking help and taking guidance, and following through with a plan that works for us.  [Name] and I have been having lots of open conversation lately. 

I now feel like he is truly listening and that he respects me.  He also has been initiating concerns that he has with the relationship or with my actions, versus not saying anything and letting it build up to become a bigger issue that bursts when he can’t hold it in anymore, thereby leading to confusion, arguments, and feelings of dissatisfaction on both of our parts. 

Overall, our relationship has been better than ever, which is significant, because I feel like what we’ve had since the beginning is rare and that we’ve been very fortunate to have each other.  I’m grateful for the turn in our relationship and excited about future changes for us as well!

Sat, 30 Sep 2006

Cutting Losses

Cutting losses refers to the general notion of protecting yourself from further damage

You can learn many things about the markets by running your tests.

In practice, sticking to the part of your system that requires cutting losses may involve more than logic.

Cutting Losses

may excite emotions.

Clip: http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/

Fri, 29 Sep 2006

Mr. Seykota,

Trend Follower Up About 25%

I would like to thank you for your insights and teachings, and your general ability to get to the heart of an issue with a simple, pithy statement.

Your contributions to Mike Covel’s Trend Following (and other sources, such as your website) have served as a tremendous inspiration to me and my trading.

I run a small hedge fund (less than one million right now) and have returned about 25% this year in trading equities and futures, with an 11% drawdown in May as my worst drawdown.

I got my start in trading working as a Market Maker on the NASDAQ and employing a vastly different strategy than I use in my fund.

My first day as a Market Maker I was told “Stocks that make new highs, continue to make new highs, while stock that make new lows, continue to make new lows.” This statement has stayed with me and is what makes me a trend follower.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Stocks are Like Elevator Cars

Once they start moving

they tend to keep going

in the same direction,

even after you get out.

Clip: http://www.thisisbroken.com/b/

Fri, 29 Sep 2006

Signature Form - Jiggling Leg

Ed,

You might consider applying the Rocks Process. See the link above.  Your leg may be able to lead you to the source of your anxiety.

The Message may be in the Leg

Clip: http://www.keikogallery.com/

Fri, 29 Sep 2006

Back to Trading

I see some contradictions, especially from voices of authorities about the relevance of certain trading methods

an excerpt from a 1997 interview with Bill Eckhardt:

"... in our continual efforts at ETC to extract further relevant information from price series, we have a policy of avoiding summary statistics (for trade generation, not for statistical inference). My favorite example of what to avoid is a moving average of price -- it boils all price history down to a single number; any information encoded in structural relations within the series is washed away.

The breakout trader retains a little of this structure in that he or she reduces price history to two numbers. This represents a substantial improvement over moving average trading -- evidently a little structure goes a long way."

Well, I see moving averages work exceptionally fine throughout the period of 1997 'till now (in simulations). You also quietly suggest this on the TSP pages. Then again, check out Bill's performance for those years.

This confirms the idea that listening and depending on anybody's opinion, even guys such as Eckhardt or You can spawn lots of confusion. Got to admit that your FAQ doesn't exactly "clear my mind".

I'm fed up of relying on others people's judgments. All I can get is some insight and then dope out my own conclusions.

Fri, 29 Sep 2006

Trading Query for Ed - Trading Tribe

Hi Ed,

I wanted to ask you an important question if this is ok.

I have developed a system which has been trading in real-time for the past 2 years, and is doing fairly well. My hypothetical back-tests using past data over the past 20 years show a Maximum Drawdown of 30% and an average return of 30% per year.

My problem is that I do not know whether my Maximum Drawdown in live trading will be greater than 30%.

Ed, from your experience comparing back-tests with live trading, in live trading how many times greater could the maximum drawdown be compared to hypothetical trading.

Presently, I am assuming that my Maximum Drawdown in live trading could be potentially 2 times greater than as shown in my back-tests i.e. 60% Max DD. Maybe I should adjust my position size and leverage to allow for 3 times my hypothetical Max Drawdown.

I, too, do not know how to predict your actual Maximum Drawdown.

About all you can "predict" is that trading systems are likely to continue generating drawdowns.

You might consider taking your feelings about drawdowns to your Tribe as an entry point.

Discomfort about Drawdowns

may indicate deeper fears.

Clip: http://www.news.cornell.edu/

Fri, 29 Sep 2006

Pulling the Trigger

Dear Mr. Seykota,

In the last months I develop a feeling of "not pulling the trigger" in my trading and also in inter-personal relationships.

It is a feeling of "having one foot on the brake" and not realizing my full potential.

You might take your feelings to the hotseat to find out what you are trying to tell yourself.

Sometimes Waiting to Pull the Trigger

is the healthy move.

Clip: http://www.haloimages.com/

Thu, 28 Sep 2006

Inhibition

Ed Says: Yes, TTP helps develop the practices (1) of sending straight from the gut, without inhibition and (2) or receiving whatever others send, responding constructively rather than reacting defensively.

I notice the girls I usually "fall in love" with are very shy and seem to be very inhibited. Even though I notice they appreciate my compliments and initiative to start a relationship with them, they are seemingly just unable to take any initiative to do so.

OK.

Thu, 28 Sep 2006

I wonder where you are seeing all these things.

My experience working with the Rocks Process  is that it is substantially more intense than the standard hot seat process.  It is also more effective in moving senders through signature forms.

It tends to reduce drama, locate and heal deep wounds, focus the sender on the real issues and set him free.

In the standard Hot Seat Process, the Tribe provides a healing field of acknowledgment. In the Rocks Process, the Tribe also provides an opportunity for analytical and role-playing interactions

Seeing is Believing

and sometimes

believing is Seeing

Clip: http://bite.typepad.com/photos/

Thu, 28 Sep 2006

Umbrellas

see previous

I wanted to reply to the FAQ of mine that you posted dated 9/20.

I wanted to say that I admire the way you responded to my rant. Your analysis, something to the affect of my "fear of change" and "responding with anger", now that I thought about it, is very accurate!

I will take my "fear of change" to the hotseat when I attend your tribe meeting non-locally tonight (9/28). I burned my bridges in two local tribes that I attended, so attending your meetings non-locally is all I have now.

I offer you my apology for attempting to suck you into my drama. And I thank-you for your emotionally mature response.

With renewed admiration and respect,

Thank you for your previous note, and for your follow-up note.

Yes, TTP helps develop the practices (1) of sending straight from the gut, without inhibition and (2) or receiving whatever others send, responding constructively rather than reacting defensively.

Our interchange provides an example of both these practices.

Cell Phones

send and receive all kinds of messages

without inhibition

or defensive reaction.

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

It Is What It Is

Dear Ed,


It’s about 9:30pm and I’m doing my “homework” for tomorrow’s trading day. I just want to say thank you for calling me today. I am inspired that a man of your stature would take the time to call from a simple email.

I am reading and re-reading “Rocks” while I wait for your book. I am looking at a picture of you, found on the Turtle Trader website. It is nice to put a face with a voice – I hope you feel the same, because I am attaching a picture of me together with my wife.

John Henry is also featured on the Turtle website. I have a quote on my desk by John that reminds me of the “p” in your SVO-p. –

“… really believe that, what is, is all that is important – at least with regarding making decisions. If you can put aside what should be, what could be, what ought to be, what would have, could have, should have occurred, and just pay attention to what is actually happening, the act of paying attention transforms what is. The greatest action, the wisest, the best action that you can take in almost any situation is to stay with what is, instead of jumping to conclusions or trying to come up with conclusions.”

 

- John Henry

OK.

Trend Followers

stay in the now

and go with the flow.

Clip: http://www.jeanmason.com/

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Snapshot Process

Hi Ed.

I hope you are well. I know you did not respond to my last email and that's OK. It actually worked very well for me. You are too smart for that.

I got a great job learning lot of staff from this  Institutional guy. I'm actually working everyday and fired up everyday like when I 20 years old. Lot of great things are happening. Still got a work on Body, Relationship, and Fun but that's OK.

It's funny my parents - all the sudden my parents called me up and told me happy birthday and sent me a birthday card. (True Story) and little gift.

So I'm jotting down all the birthdays for my clients and make sure I send them a card and phone call.

Long story short, little drama in [City] tribe, was going excellent, however one member dropped out and some drama occurred to postpone the meeting to God knows when. Anyway so I took a shot at introducing the snapshot process to [Other City] tribe tonight.

It's crazy because it was pretty tough. I told them it was out of my pure love. Everybody agreed to coming up with the snap shot with a little twist with chief saying "oh I'm going to work on my own style of snapshots instead of the right livelihood, body, fun and relationships. We had intense discussing about it, lots of feelings.
 

Best thing was everybody welcomed me back. I finally got when you said " OUR TRIBE" on FAQ few weeks back. Hopefully it will develop to improving the science of TTP.

Thank you for sharing your process and your experiments with the Snapshot Process.

When you Get Clear about Family

Family clearly appears

Clip: http://www.adashofpanache.com/images/

Photos/Staff/Alvord%20Family%20Picture%2001.JPG

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Good One!

see: New Name

Thu, 28 Sep 2006

Technical Analysis Society of Hong Kong

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I am a board member of the Technical Analysis Society of Hong Kong www.tashk.com.hk . I understand that you will be flying out to Asia in late October and will be speaking at a seminar in Singapore.

I was wondering if you will be in Hong Kong during that trip.

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

New Name for TTP

see Singapore Conference

I agree with your statement.


I look at the requirements for the Incline Village Tribe, and nowhere does it say a member has to be trading, has ever traded, or even cares or understands what trading is.

The only place the word ‘trading’ exists is in the name “Trading Tribe” and/or “Trading Tribe Process”.

Since trading has no grounds for admission to the IV tribe, I suggest you change the name of the entire process to reflect what it really is, as this title misleads.

Yes, The Trading Tribe starts in 1992 in Los Altos, California as a trader support group. 

The Trading Tribe is now a worldwide organization that deals with issues common to people from all walks of life.

Many of the members play music so I am considering changing our name to the London Philharmonic Orchestra - although I hear that particular name might already be in use.

I wonder what name you might suggest.

London Philharmonic Orchestra

Clip: http://www.ldn-ipc.dircon.co.uk/

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Wants a Man

Dear Ed,

Your FAQ is an inspiring source for new ideas. I get the impression that the pictures are talking directly to Fred and help the mind to decide where to look for a better future. Your picture of migratory birds of Sep 25 has such a positive effect on me and Folk Dancing of Sep 17.

I have some difficulty in building a serious relationship to a man and was already wondering whether this is connected to the fact that I cannot imagine one.

Some weeks ago I spend a Sunday creating "Snapshots" and ran again in the same situation. Concerning a "Snapshot" dealing with a fulfilling relationship to a man I saw nothing.

My impression is that what you don't know you cannot put in a "Snapshot". Right now I am wondering whether all good relationships have a little secret that cannot be photographed?

If you don't know what kind of man to put in your snapshot, you might consider asking some of your friends for ideas.

Also, you might consider finding out more by going out on some dates to meet different kinds of men.

You might also consider taking your feelings about wanting a man to the Hot Seat.

Finding a Man with Your Interests

is easier

once you know your interests.

Clip: http://www.monm.edu/sportsinfo/

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Fred, Drama and Rocks

Dear Ed,

last evening, last night and this morning I got some new ideas after reading your document about the trading tribe process and FAQ.

It is really a good idea to explain Fred and Drama on your homepage. This helped me off quite a lot after re-experiencing some bad situations last week.

Before reading this I had no clue what was going on, only the impression that it has to do with experiences in childhood.

In one case I at least started a discussion after getting angry and receiving the feeling right in the situation so that I could do something. I hope this is solved. The other situation is not so clear and writing this I get the impression this would be a subject for a TTP process.

Funny enough I was the person who send you a comment about the book "Trend Following" and got no answer at all. I was really annoyed and needed some days to realize that it is everybody's freedom to answer or not to answer.

Reading your comments about "Rocks" and now "Fred" I get the impression that in this mail I took the role of the "Teaser" to create attention and engage you in my drama.

Now, since I have read that Fred is trading I understand the lessons about baseball in the book. Fred trades and Fred plays baseball :-))) Actually, I loved that somebody published a book about Trend Following and I am wondering what disturbed me about the book since I have the impression that Trend Following brings the probability on your side and reduces stress.

I also think that the following is a general problem of people. You are willing to improve your character but you just don't recognize what you are doing!

Therefore it is a fantastic idea to put the "Rocks process" in the Internet. I hope that you add to the document to enlighten the matter a bit more. What other rocks can be found? What about the rock "assassin"?

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Rocks and Gold

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Rocks, Right Livelihood, and TTP stagnation

In regards to Rocks, Right Livelihood, and TTP stagnation, I notice the following.

Right Livelihood incorporates most all of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: (Read by starting at 1 on the bottom and build up to 5, only if the underlying layers are solid.)

5) Need for Self Actualization – Challenging Projects, Opportunities for Innovation and Creativity. Learning at a High Level.

4) Need for Self Esteem – Important Projects, Recognition of Strength-Intelligence, Prestige and Status.

3) Social and Belonging Needs – Acceptance, Group Membership, Association with Successful Team, Love and Affection.

2) Need for Safety and Security – Physical Safety, Economic Safety, Freedom from Threats, Comfort, and Peace.

1) Physical Survival Needs - Water, Food, Sleep, Shelter, Warmth, Health, Exercise, and Sex.

Wed, 27 Sep 2006

Help!

Thank you for sharing your process.

You might consider taking your feelings of anger to the hot seat.

If your anger does not resolve after a few meetings, you might consider applying the Rock Process.  See the link, above.

Link to Talk. 

Anger

has a positive intention.

Clip: http://www.walkingwounded.net/html/

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Another Workshop in the Works

Ed,

Really good to talk with you. TTP seems to have STP added to it. Fast, fast, relief. Whoa, my mixed metaphors are slipping as we go into the turn.

As a man of music, allow me to remind you that melodies come around on the guitar ... and banjo ... as well as in literature and life - where they are more commonly known as themes.

Yes, I have made several references to the efforts of others to understand how we human get ourselves into the predicaments we do. Our self-examining, or at least centered, nature is a major theme among us.

And looking at what others have done is in my style of research. I have admiration for yours, practiced by only a rare few others I know - which is to figure it out for yourself. I have witnessed you independently create or recreate: threshold patterns, parts integration, hypnotic receipting, tasking, ordeal therapy, symbolic change and more. And I could see and be a part of this.

Thank you for your comments and for providing names and references to others who are doing similar things.

Perhaps I can use these references to develop the illusion that I know what I'm doing.

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Web Site Down #2

see previous

From: Copyright Holder
Subject: Re: Notice of copyright infringement

Greetings,

GoDaddy.com Copyright Claims Dept. wrote:
Thank you for contacting Go Daddy. We have suspended the site in question pending a resolution. Please allow up to 30 minutes for these changes to take effect ... If the site owner indicates they are ready to remove the infringing content, we will re-activate the hosting account in order to allow that to happen.

The user in question apparently tried to follow the above procedure, but failed to obtain any response from GoDaddy -- i.e., they indicated willingness
to remove the offending image and notified GoDaddy of that fact, but the site was never re-enabled, so they were never able to actually do so.

They have moved that portion of their website to another hosting provider and removed my image from that version; I have no doubt that if the GoDaddy-hosted site is re-enabled, they will remove it from there as well.

As that would resolve my original complaint, I believe that you should re-enable the site and allow them to remove the offending image.

Thank you,

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Rocks and Check-In

Ed,

I read your new write-up on Rocks and feel relieved and disoriented at the same time. There's a lot in there. I'm sure the disoriented feeling means I'm in the process of putting a new puzzle together. Maybe confusion is the breeding ground for learning. Maybe for me it is.

Our tribe lost its meeting space two months ago, but our chief has managed to find alternate meeting space. Space seems to trade at high prices in NYC. We meet again tonight for the first time in a while. I look forward to it.

I continue to follow my system. I understand the process. It feels good.

My relationship with my wife is great. She makes me very happy. She is unique to me because she doesn't seem to have many of the judges I used to have. She just goes with it most of the time. I go with it now, too, but I used to get very nervous about many things in the past. I had many judges about the effectiveness of groups and I made bad decisions regarding my association with people who do not care to grow and learn. When I make the decision to associate with folks who want me to grow, things turn around.

My job at [Firm] ends a week ago. My team had a 3% drawdown and our employer asks us to leave. I knew for sometime we'd be parting ways because the right investor / employer is not someone who balks at a 3% drawdown given our trading plan.

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Web Site Down

From: Copyright Holder

Your recent problems with GoDaddy's Process

Greetings,

I hope this gets to you; I was unable to find a contact email address on your site, although I only looked at a handful of pages.

I'm the fellow who sent a notice of copyright infringement to GoDaddy about your use of my crucible image. I read of your problems in dealing with GoDaddy on your page here:

http://www.edseykota.com/tribe/

Dear Sir,

As you know, Go Daddy is non-responsive to our request to follow their own procedures for getting our site back online. You may also know that we receive about a million page hits per year from our friends worldwide, especially from the financial community.

As an interim solution we now have the FAQ part of our site online at another ISP. Many functions however, such as Financial Charting services are specific to the GoDaddy database engine and are difficult to transport.

You could assist us in getting back online by sending emails to GoDaddy's President and Copyright departments saying you withdraw your complaint and would like to see us back online immediately.

Please note that it is our intention to remove your Crucible image from the GoDaddy site, although we are now in a catch-22 stalemate position. We cannot remove the image while the site is down and due to the image, our account is in suspense.

We feel that a letter from you might somehow break the log jam and help us restore service to our readers.

Yours truly,

Karin Morris,

Assistant to Ed Seykota

PS: Please send us copies of your emails to GoDaddy so we can follow your progress.

For more on the story, See: Site Down

Legal Tangles

tend to unwind

people relate

on a direct, heart-to-heart level.

PS: To contact FAQ or Ed,

simply use the "Contact Us" link, above.

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Rocks and Anger

Hi Ed,

Thank you for the phone conversation last week where we discuss the evolving “Rocks” process.

During this phone conversation (as well as a previous FAQ letter) I mention that with TTP I tend to display a similar form (i.e. a signature form) whenever I’m on the hotseat, regardless of the issue that I bring to the hotseat. (The issue is always different but the form displayed is more or less the same.) I also mention that certain things tend to get me worked up, irritated and angry.

In an attempt to gain an understanding as to why I become angry (or irritated) at certain situations you suggest a 'walk down memory lane' or 'running a simulation' as you describe in your 'Rocks' essay. We attempt to do this via the phone knowing full well the limitations of this mode of communication. I suppose you could call it a ‘lite’ version of the process.

I begin with my memory of my childhood days. I remember a particular incident where as a young boy (12/13 years old) I am involved in the vandalism (via graffiti) of the local school. Without going into the finer details, I will simply say that my ‘art’ work is very quickly discovered by the locals and the matter is referred to the police. The police ring my home and of course my father now finds out. Now, I am in very deep . . er . . doo-doo.

I remember this incident reasonably well, as my father goes into an absolute rage.

My father is an honest law abiding citizen, a very straight man indeed. He is a very hard working man. He is the local shopkeeper and as such has contact with the community on a daily basis. He cannot understand why this should be happening to HIM. What has HE done to deserve this?

He is unable to cope with the fact that everyone now knows his son has been involved in the willful damage of school property and now his son’s name is on record with the police. It’s as though he’s the one at fault. He doesn’t know what to do.

Normally he’s very mild mannered but these events have TOTALLY overwhelmed him, he is unable to respond in any other way except to become white with anger and to then lash out.

He grabs me with one hand and proceeds to hit me with the other. He is ranting, raving and swearing. He says he’s going to kill me. He keeps hitting me. I remember that I cry and scream as loud as I can so that perhaps someone might hear me and help me.

Of course no-one hears and no-one helps. I twist, I turn, I fall to the ground, I try to escape but am unable to (I am only a 12 year old boy). He is much too strong and he has a firm grip on me and he continues to beat me. He continues to swear & yell.

Using the “Rocks” terminology, My father is now FORCING me to feel pain and fear against my will.

Eventually my Mother arrives on the scene and she is able to split us apart.

I cannot clearly remember what my exact emotional feelings were right at that moment just prior to my mother arriving, but thinking of the situation now I clearly was scared and totally powerless to do anything about it.

Now I don’t know this for sure but I strongly suspect that in this state of sheer helplessness I feel an overwhelming anger. An anger such that I may have said (in my own mind), “F--- YOU!!!, STOP hitting me you f---ing bastard. I’m going to F---ING KILL YOU for this!”

(I can’t be sure that I actually thought these exact words, but intuitively I feel as though I did think something along those lines and it sits well with me that I may have thought this . . . . remember, it was a long time ago)

So, was it at this point that I was handed my fathers ‘Rock’?

Was it at this point I chose to receive it & have been holding onto it ever since?

Maybe yes, to both the above.

Again from the 'Rocks' essay, “Conveying feelings by force to someone who is unwilling to receive them is evil and results in the passage of the ‘rock’”

I find that in my own life there are many instances where if I become overwhelmed by the situation around me, my response is to get angry and to lash out. I don’t yet have the skills to deal with an overwhelming situation in any other way other than to get angry. . . . . . just like my father.

Of course, from a rational(?) point of view, when faced by this type of situation, one alternative way of dealing with the problem is, perhaps, to relax, sit down and try to discuss the situation and to let others know how I’m feeling and what I dislike about the situation. However I do not have those skills yet. It’s as though I have this animal urge to just rage and attack.

My modus operandi for these particular situations is therefore;

Feel overwhelmed = Get angry = Lash out (either physically or verbally, depending on the intensity of the drama of course)

I am aware of a lot of things that I do and how I ‘operate’ under different circumstances however this realization that I become angry when faced with overwhelm is new to me. I now understand that this is one of my character traits. It’s as though a light has gone on. So, yes, I’m now aware. So in a sense this is like a mini-aha. Now that I’m aware of it, I can explore it further in a tribe setting.

After all, in order for an Alcoholic to ‘cure’ himself he first has to acknowledge & know within himself that he is in fact an Alcoholic.

On a related note, perhaps this is why it is difficult for me to express the feeling of overwhelm.

‘Fred’ pumps the feeling of overwhelm yet somehow the feeling of anger is taken to the ‘outside world’.

Overwhelm is being overwritten/subverted by anger in this case.

As I state above, I’m now aware that in my life I seem to encounter repeating situations that force me to feel overwhelm, whether it be taking on too much work or starting too many projects or an argument with my wife or having my children misbehaving at school. My response is to get angry or irritated.

Discussing this over the phone lines is of course no substitute for a face to face tribe meeting where perhaps I can more fully experience the feelings coming up by having a fellow (preferably much larger) tribe member role play my father and me role playing myself at age 12.

In the role playing exercise I could have my ‘father’ ‘beating’ me and yelling at me. I would experience my feelings at this time and at the point of him handing over the ‘rock’ I would simply say; “No, that’s your Rock Dad, I don’t want it” and I could simply allow it to fall to the ground when it is handed to me.

Thank you for sharing your process and for your description of the Rocks Process in action.

Forcing Someone to Feel Feelings

he is unwilling to feel

is one way to pass the rock.

Reliving the critical incident

can be part of the process

of refusing to take the rock.

Clip: http://affect.unige.ch/img/

rubriques/applications/violence.jpg

Tue, 26 Sep 2006

Rocks and Feelings

 
Ed,

The examples in the essay are all about me - all my relationships with family, friends, girls end up at my anger rock passed by my father and enhanced by the rest of the family.

This is my biggest rock ... constant low self-esteem hidden under a layer of fake emotions and signatures. Some people were honest enough to tell me that they fear my tendency to reject, my resentment and grumpiness (my fakes), others simply took advantage of me and manipulated me.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Evolution may favor a species that can teach the next generation how to react from the gut to various stressful situations.

A "See a tiger and run away" Rock might favor the preservation of the species.

A "feel rejection and get angry" Rock might preclude having a fully intimate relationship.

Tigers

Don't always stop

to discuss things logically.

Clip: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/

Mon, 25 Sep 2006

Migrating TT Web Site

Hi Ed,

It's good to see the website back up online. It is only when we lose something that we notice we have been taking it for granted. Thank you so much for maintaining the website and share your wisdom.

You show me a new way of seeing the world and I wholeheartedly thank you.

I guess you must still be working on migrating the server.

For more on the story, See: Site Down

Migration

is the natural and healthy process

of moving to a more hospitable climate.

Clip: http://www.scienceacross.org/

index.cfmfuseaction=content.

Mon, 25 Sep 2006

Chess

In honor of the Kramnik - Topalov world championship reunification match. (Chess is as fractious as boxing these days.)

Here's an easy one for FAQ readers. White to play and mate in 3.

Mon, 25 Sep 2006

Misleading Press Release


This is from the home page of

http://www.invest-summit.com

where you are to speak.


I am curious to know if you can do it at will or it was just like winning jackpot in lottery.

Thank you for the catch. 

I do not endorse the statement that currently appears in the press release.  See Zone

Mon, 25 Sep 2006

What I have learnt about the brain and how this knowledge helps me have Snapshots

Hello Ed,

I would like to share with you and your FAQ readers my process of learning “what I know now” about the brain, and how this has a profound impact on my ability to have Snapshots.

I now realize this technology really does work, I am now more careful about how I am thinking, and what I am asking others to think about.

During and after the Cambridge workshop, I find creating snapshots incredibly difficult. I concentrate on thinking what I want, however my mind tends to go blank. I try to imagine a scenario that might have me in it and I am doing what I want - “again my mind is blank”. At best I get vague pictures with no substance and never the same picture. I certainly do not achieve the ability to summon a crisp clear snapshot with me in it at will. I now believe that for me this has a lot to do with trying to process this information without any understanding and proof of how the subconscious mind works.

My friend invites me to listen to his MP3 file about how the brain functions, it starts off with some information about how new super computers developed over the last 8 years has enabled science to uncover 95% of what we now know about the brain, so this is all relatively new stuff.

The most interesting discovery for me is that the subconscious does not understand what is real or unreal, right or wrong, what is true or false.

The conscious however does understand these most of the time, but at a cost. Because understanding if an object is real or not, true or false, right or wrong requires “filtering”. This filtering slows the response time so much that the conscious mind is a lot slower at processing visually than the subconscious mind.

I learn an exercise that reminds me to be careful what I ask people to think. Anyone reading this might like to try this out; they might ask someone the following:

“DO NOT THINK OF PURPLE ELEPHANTS” and then ask them what they thought of, my tests so far have been 100% of people I asked have thought of purple elephants immediately.

A great example of this type of “do not” statement might be to tell a young child “do not” spill the milk, the statement triggers the subconscious to processes this information visually by showing “spilling the milk.” Often for the subconscious mind this image can be a cue for is “what is wanted “and sure enough the milk is spilt. Remember the subconscious does not acknowledge the “do not” part of the statement.

I learn that super computer technology has been able to uncover interesting results such as, if I look at say ‘a tree’ it makes no difference if the same tree is on a postcard in front of me or I am thinking about the tree, or if I am standing next to the real tree looking at it, the same route is taken in the brain when processing the tree visually. This understanding has helped people with “phantom pains”.

I listen to a study on people with phantom pains (for example an amputated arm) and they now experience pains in the hand that’s not there! These patients undergo an experiment which involves mirrors and special cameras. These produce a symmetrical copy of their actual arm which creates the illusion that the missing arm is still there.

The patient is then asked to do some exercises (like jumping jacks) to show the subconscious that the arm is still there and it is doing exercises. Despite the conscious mind knowing its all an illusion the subconscious does not understand what is real and what is not. 100% of the patients lost their phantom pains within 30 days. I find this fascinating and I wonder how a feeling can be felt in a limb that does not exist anymo