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Questions

(Quotes from Ed in Red)

Wed, 20 Sep 2006

Trading Tribe Site
 

Wed, 20 Sep 2006

New ideas

see Chemistry

Wed, 20 Sep 2006

Trading Tribe Site
 

Tue, 19 Sep 2006

Umbrellas

Early TTP continues to provide benefits in various areas. See the link to Rocks, above.

The Rocks process is an extension of TTP for people who want to take the work to another level of discovering personal patterns such as a tendency to express fear of change as anger and hostility.

Umbrella Process

Use various umbrellas

in various ways

to express your feelings.

Clip: http://www.adcomarketing.com/images/

Tue, 19 Sep 2006

TTP for Docile Women

PS If I can ever be helpful to you re: your
"therapeutic" strategies for middle-aged women, let me know.

Especially those who are married to or in relationship with Type A personality men. These are the hardest.

"Type A" (versus Type B) indicates reticence about showing emotion, care about showing up on time, use money as a measure of personal value and dislike dirt. 

Myers & Briggs Indicators use:

Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I).
Sensing (S) or Intuition (N).
Thinking (T) or Feeling (F).
Judging (J) or Perceiving (P)

to get a composite indicator such as ESTJ, one of sixteen possibilities.

In the Rocks Process, we feel that Rocks (critical behavior patterns) are better indicators of personal  chemistry.

Personal Chemistry

might have to do with

seeing each other

as a way to resolve deep issues.

Clip: http://www.finseth.com/Bryce/

Tue, 19 Sep 2006

Site Down

Ed,


Your web site is still down.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006

Site Down

Ed,


When I try to go to www.tradingtribe.com 
I get this: http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html

-----

Is the website down? When I try to get to www.seykota.com  I am redirected to http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html and it says "Ooops!!! This site is currently unavailable. If you are the owner of this site, please contact us at 1-480-505-8855 at your earliest convenience."

-----

When I try to get to the web site I am routed to
http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html instead.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006

Feels Chemistry for Bitches

I also often find myself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting girls who already have a boyfriend and are apparently unsatisfied with their relationship, and seem to be looking for more "options" or playing manipulative games.

Thank you for sharing your process.

The Rock you are carrying might make your drama pattern inevitable for you.

There is no Accounting for Taste

until you see the rock.

Clip: http://oraculations.blogspot.com/uploaded_

Mon, 18 Sep 2006

A Revolting Rock

Ed, there is an episode in my childhood which I think has a greater influence on who I am today. Our father used to punish us with a belt or a whip, out of disobedience or for the sake of discipline.

Nevertheless he used to be affectionate towards us in our early childhood.

Last night I remembered these episodes, just before sleeping.

As he sometimes was unfair in doing the beating, I remembered how one day I revolted against his authority and threatened him. I remember how he was shocked and surprised. But from that day on he never beat me anymore.

Nowadays I am usually confronted with these memories when I find myself alone and lonely, such as after asserting myself and expressing my anger towards a girl who has disappointed me.

Thank you for sharing your process.

In the Rocks model, your father finally succeeds in transferring the "revolt" rock to you.

Thereafter, in situations involving conflict and danger to yourself, you apply the "drama-in-the-rock" to revolt against the other person.

You may even pre-select people whom you feel might make good candidates for this "revolting" drama.

Part of the Rocks process is to realize that you cannot escape from the drama by analyzing it or trying to change it.

Another part is to return to the critical event and to forgive the rock and set yourself free to respond in a wider variety of ways. 

For more on the Rocks Process, see the link to Rocks, above.

Some Patterns Tend to Persist

until we go back

and forgive our attachments to them

Clip: http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/images/

whipping_post_550.jpg

18 Sep 2006

Role of TTP

TTP is a set of tools, and does not include a requirement for deployment.

Tools Don't Have a Role

until you give them one.

Clip: http://www.flibberkids.com/images/

Mon, 18 Sep 2006

Re-experiencing

Sun, 17 Sep 2006

Trading Beliefs about the Markets

A belief is cognitive content that you hold to be true. 

In addition to trading your beliefs, you are likely also trading your feelings, about the markets, about your worth and about yourself.

"Strong and blind belief is a virtue."

"OK then.  I will strongly believe

that you don know much of anything."

While focusing on the content of beliefs,

we might miss the lessons

the father and son

are teaching each other

about their relationship.

Sun, 17 Sep 2006

Fond Farewell From LA Area oldest Tribe

Sun, 17 Sep 2006

Feedback on Rocks

The Rocks process extends conscious awareness of unconscious patterns toward emotional awareness of them.

When we learn to open ourselves up to new "instinctive" emotional responses, we can set ourselves free past the point we can do so by analysis, thinking and declarations.

I support your moving forward and joining some groups that may give you a field of support on a regular basis.

Folk Dancing

Good exercise, good fun,

and a good way to make friends.

Clip: http://www.folkdance.suite.dk/u0/fot2.jpg

Sun, 17 Sep 2006

Rocks

Ed,


I’ve been reading your papers.

In my experience, the TTP process seems to work great when the feelings are simple, or socially acceptable. But stagnates when there are beliefs or global decisions that filter; a complex set of feelings (multiple feelings simultaneously), or the not socially acceptable feelings, into simple or socially expressible ones.

We have members of our tribe with signature forms which I believe are more accurately described in the Rocks process. Where there is a real feeling causing the recurring destructive drama in the person’s life, but as in the Rocks process, it is unacceptable to express or is so unconscious that it is inexpressible on the hot seat. So what appears on the hot seat is a simple socially acceptable decoy feeling, which exhibits signature forms, and which makes little or no progress and stagnates.

The heart of the matter of this stagnation, I think is a belief or global decision which was put in place in a time of great trauma in an un-resourceful time in our life (like childhood) that translates the raw feeling we unconsciously feel into the one that we consciously experience and which appears in the outside in the world.

It seems to me that you are on the right track with the evolving Rocks process. Somehow we need to work backwards through the belief (global decision) to access the source feeling because experiencing the decoy feeling will never get to the heart of the wound to allow the healing. In most cases nothing will change until the belief is changed. The belief has no chance of changing until it has a name, and is re-evaluated and re-decided in a more resourceful state, that is in harmony with all other belief and feelings the person has.

I like the analogy of the Hats because people often go around the world completely unconscious of what feeling is on their hat but it is clear to the people that spend any time around them what the hat says.

The Tribe gathering is critical here because tribe members that don’t have that issue can guess from the behavior what the hat says. The sender can verify the accuracy of the tribe’s observations when the suggested hat label has the heat of a strong reaction.

I am unclear when the rock gets named. Is it carried without a name and then gets named in the tribe meeting?

If so, I can see how the Rocks process might work as well as the Hats version.

Using the Rock like an NLP anchoring process might be very effective at breaking through the belief into the real feelings on the hot seat.

To do this it seems very important to me that the rock is carried for some time with no name. That is it carried long enough to have the feeling with no name strongly associated with holding the rock and squeezing it exactly the same way when the feeling is very strong.

It probably would be best to have a unique rock each time this process is started and that squeezing the rock when the feeling is very strong happens more than a dozen times for the anchor to be strong. An unconscious or unacceptable feeling then would have some chance of appearing on the hot seat when the anchor is fired by the sender setting on the hot seat and squeezing the rock in the same way.

This process could bring the un-named, unconscious feeling up on the hot seat where traditional TTP works well. If there is no aha or behavior change then the tribe process of naming the rock might access the belief that is filtering the deeper feeling.

Thank you for engaging the discussion.

Sat, 16 Sep 2006

Ideal Girlfriend - 2

If you have a rock that fits with your mother's rock you are likely to move on to attract a woman who has the same rock as your mother.

We Move Forward

through a series

of pretty good fits.

Clip: http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~psyc351/

Sat, 16 Sep 2006

Ideal Girlfriend

Sat, 16 Sep 2006

Destiny

Evidently, your destiny is to send me the entry on the left, mine to answer it here.

Adam and Eve

Originally Choose Their Destiny

(which is to have Free Will.)

Sat, 16 Sep 2006

SEO

FAQ currently receives somewhere in the neighborhood of a million page hits per year with absolutely no SEO optimization, banners or commercial ties that might compromise content.

I am open to you sending me a proposal for exactly what you propose to do, how often you would need to do it, how long it might take and how much you might like to charge for your service.

Sat, 16 Sep 2006

Rocks

In TTP and in the Rocks process we do not aim to "trigger" or otherwise influence willingness. 

I hold that such attempts are the source, rather than the cure for rocks.

In the rocks process, we are very careful to receive a declaration of willingness from the sender before we attempt to re-ignite his memories of painful events.

Pain Typically Attends

the Transfer of a Rock

and also the process of forgiving it.

The pain typically arises

when one person forces another

to experience something

he is unwilling to experience.

Before we apply the Rocks Process

we secure the willingness of the sender

to re-experience the pain.

Otherwise we risk

compounding the problem

rather than solving it.

Clip: http://www.bcysth.ca/photo_gallery/

Fri, 15 Sep 2006

The Rock is Off

The process of forgiving a rock typically entails substantial emotional work and the assistance of a tribe. 

The process you describe sounds like you are just following more of the drama in the "anger and logic" rock.

Fri, 15 Sep 2006

Forgiving Rocks

Dear Ed,

I am still feeling gratitude and awe for how you and the Incline Tribe are developing TTP. It takes courage to admit when something as effective as TTP has limits and to develop and test new growth technologies.

I appreciate that you now present a "cartography" of the process and encourage others to navigate it individually as it unfolds.

This is a report of some of my own "unfolding journeys" along the TTP map. Two weeks ago the Incline Tribe works as a team to help another member go through the rock process.

He discovers that he has a " I like to hurt women" rock. He is shocked but is unable to get rid of the rock. Presented with several simulated real-life encounters, his drama outcome is still the same. He feels despair and hopelessness The rest of the tribe huddles in the kitchen and comes up with a plan.

The despairing member is asked if he's willing to take the hot seat to deal with the issue. Soon he realizes that the tribe is about to put him through his worst nightmare (childhood memory).

He is willing and resists the attack with all his strength knocking some of us on our butts. It is an unrelenting process until he surrenders to the feeling. The process is possible only because of the his total willingness to go back to the pain and relive it. He is finally ready to forgive the 'hurt women" rock when he feels the full impact of his past behavior.

He later describes the experience akin to a "rape" where the attacker forces the victim to feel things the victim is unwilling to feel.

Thank you for your report.

Rape

The essential sin

is to force someone

to experience something

s/he is unwilling to experience.

During this process

the attacker may transmit a rock

to the victim.

The Rocks Process

returns the sender

to his memories of the event

and allows him to re-experience it

without taking the stone.

Fri, 15 Sep 2006

Does it with Mom

Thank you for sharing your process.

A Domineering Mother

is likely to control her son

by making him worry

about her comfort

about processes that

might set him free.

Clip: http://www.variety.com/graphics/

Fri, 15 Sep 2006

Wants a Counter-Trend System

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Tinkering -- I agree

I agree with the person who wrote 'Tinkering'. In my experience with two tribes, most people (80% is my guess) find TTP and Snapshots easy to learn, easy to put to practice, and a great help.

Thank you for checking in. 

I, too, still find TTP very effective. 

Rocks is a method to extend the scope of TTP in cases where the sender gets stuck with signature forms and wishes to move through them.

The process seems to require management by someone familiar with TTP, TA, NLP, and Hypnosis.

Even Good Vehicles

Can Get Stuck

Clip: http://lee.org/journal/journal%20010104-

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Rocks

We are still developing the Rocks process.  If you want to participate, you may apply to IVTT to help develop it with us. 

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Weirdoes

Ed Says: Thank you for sharing your process. If you are carrying a rock about a drama in which you express anger, you may find yourself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting people who have rocks that compliment yours. Giving Up A Rock may be all the more difficult when you are already associating with others whose rocks fit yours.

Yes, right to the point. I have been flirting with a girl for a while. I don't understand her behavior. Sometimes I am under the impression she is very shy / timid / indecisive and is unable to move on to start a relationship with me.

Sometimes I am under the impression she isn't interested and / or is playing games with my feelings and is somehow unable to commit.

OK.

The Rock You Carry

Fit the Rock

your playmate carries

Clip: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~nelson/courses/

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Thank you for extending the discussion.  I don't have a rigorous definition for measurable progress.  I measure progress by the reactions the Tribe members share.

Shock and Awe

Some things, like measurable progress

show up in the faces

of your friends and associates.

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Anger and Logic
 

Ed Says: "Men who learn to communicate feelings of love, affection and caring for their spouses as well as communicating anger and logic find their relationships reaching much fuller levels of satisfaction."

As I draw from my own experience, I notice some if not a lot of women are particularly keen at teasing k-notty feelings about communicating anger and/or asserting oneself.

It looks like as though they even appreciate it, as though they need direction. Whatever, I typically get confused and "angry" with such a behavior and I don't like it.

Thank you for sharing your process.  If you are carrying a rock about a drama in which you express anger, you may find yourself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting people who have rocks that compliment yours.

Giving Up A Rock

may be all the more difficult

when you are already associating

with others whose rocks fit yours.

Clip: http://toyblog.typepad.com/lemon/

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Wanting Recognition

Hi Ed,

The issue I bring to the hotseat is about seeking recognition / acknowledgement about doing such a fine job of advising people on how to trade markets, of being such a wonderful husband who slaves his backside off so my family is well provided for of being such an exemplary father who always is doing his best for his son and of being such a fine son who takes care of his aging mom even when his more able siblings do not.

I perceive I setup dramas (which at times are destructive to the relationship) with my need to be recognized / acknowledged. At the point when I sense I’m setting up these drama’s, I fail to look for / acknowledge my feelings at that.

Thank you for sharing your process. 

You seem to provide an example of the kinds of limitations people are encountering with TTP.  I address some of these issues in the Rocks article, above.

TTP provides an excellent forum in which people can manage anger, learn to unwind k-nots and express feelings, learn to listen to others, experience sending and receiving acknowledgment and allowing others to be themselves without having to fix them.

The issues that people are wrestling with seem to have roots in another area that I am calling a rock.  A k-not is an unwillingness to express an emotion.  A rock is an agreement to act out a mission, such as revenge. This agreement typically forms (you accept the rock) during an early childhood episode in which someone forces you to feel something you are unwilling to feel.  After you exhaust your nominal responses, such as rationality and defiance,  you enter a state of futility,  resignation and perhaps quiet sobbing.  During the creation of such a wound, you may also vow vengeance.  This creates a "killer" rock. 

Alternatively, you may feel the wound of  unbearable guilt and vow a life of repentance. and accept a "victim" rock.

Other rocks carry programming for people to be predators, teasers, perfectionists, etc.

Currently we are exploring ways to understand this process, including reliving the emotions surrounding the critical moments of accepting the rock.

We are also encouraging the sender to simulate life with and without the rock.  Typically the sender surrenders (forgives) the rock, grieves for a while and then finds his life astoundingly free.

I am not clear at this point how to convey instructions via FAQ for engaging this process.  I am not clear about the kinds of risks that people might engage by attempting these processes on their own.  I am, at this point, merely continuing to report developments in the Incline Village Trading Tribe.

In your case, I might wonder if you are, perhaps, carrying a rock from someone from your childhood whom you know has a tendency toward stoicism, hard work and personal sacrifice.

We begin the process by finding a stone that fits our hand and pocket, and then by carrying it around with us.  When we sense we are engaging the drama, we reach for the rock, and squeeze our feelings into it.  After several such squeezing the rock comes to symbolize our process and we bring it to a Tribe meeting as a focal point for the journey to locate and re-frame the critical incident that accounts for the primary choice to accept the rock.

The Soldier Rock

Invests the sender

with a mission to play by the rules

and to sacrifice himself

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Stocks in Historical Up-Trends Long Term

To fully understand the listing you would likely need the exact formulae and data I use.  I do not publish specifics about either.

In general, you might notice that for a long-term trend of any large time constant, t, there exists a one-day move of extent, s, that is sufficient to propel the stock into the strength listings.

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Donchian System

Hello Ed,

My question is about the Donchian trading system shown on the charts page.

Were there any fees (such as the typical CTA 20% fee) taken into account? Or are the returns raw?

My guess is that the returns are raw. They are decent for a simple system. Perhaps it can be improved with optimization or higher bet size. I don't think any CTA would raise a lot of money with that kind of performance (drawdown vs. returns).

Also, would you mind telling how "Coal" is a strong stock sector? It has been going down for a while. Then again it depends on your time frame. All in all,

The Donchian system provides a generic example of the kinds of performance profile you might expect with a long-term trend-following system.  It uses transaction "skid" as a proxy for both commissions and slippage.

Coal is a commodity-specific group that an associate suggests placing on the site.  Its inclusion does not imply strength or weakness.

Coal - Just Another Rock

Sometimes you find it

in your portfolio

and sometimes

in your stocking.

Clip: http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2000backeast/

Wed, 13 Sep 2006

Rocks

We are now using Rocks to get the "retracement" time down from a year or two to a week or two.

Pandora Opens Her Box

 and releases misfortune on mankind.

Plague, sorrow, poverty, crime,

despair, greed, etc. everything except elpis,

from the Greek, Ελπις,

meaning hope or anticipation of misfortune.

Some scholars equate the vessel

with Pandora's womanhood.

Clip: http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/

Wed, 13 Sep 2006

Tinkering

Thank you for sharing your insight. 

I agree, if it ain't broke, it don't need mending.  If it is broke, get a tinker.

Rocks is a way to mend the tendency of some senders to get stuck sending and re-sending their signature form without making measurable progress.

A Tinker

is formerly a person,

traditionally a Gypsy

who travels from place to place

mending pots and kettles

and other metal utensils

as a way to earn a living.

http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/

Date: Wed, 13 Sep

Sent in Support of your Further Success
 

Ed,

Good to talk with you today.

The [City] Trading Tribe met tonight at my place. A good meeting. Several of the members, including myself, exploring new forms. I tired various things including: encouraging a repeated role play, accessing both the familiar feeling / form and the positive feeling / form they are unwilling to feel and going for the 'don't know' feeling.

In our telephone conversation I mentioned some Transactional Analysis resources that might speed up clarifying certain distinctions you are making. A good summary of TA is "Transactional Analysis" by Stan Woollams. I studied with his school of TA and and vouch for the accuracy of the text. I found one copy at

http://www.amazon.com/Transactional-analysis-

Stan-Woollams/dp/B0006CZ25A/sr=1-21/

qid=1158124753/ref=sr_1_21/104-6318470-

9015160?ie=UTF8&s=books

A more therapy oriented book is "Transactional Analysis After Eric Berne: Teachings and Practices of Three TA Schools." This one is pricier and it does contain more detail on Re-decision Therapy by Goulding. There is one copy at

http://www.amazon.com/Transactional-analysis-

Stan-Woollams/dp/B0006CZ25A/sr=1-21/

qid=1158124753/ref=sr_1_21/104-6318470-

9015160?ie=UTF8&s=books

Of course, then there's the reissue of the Goulding's own book "Changing Lives Through Re-Decision Therapy" You can view a bit of it on-line. I actually do not own this one as I was an advocate of 'Mini-Script' Theory at the time.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/104-

6318470-9015160?url=search-alias3Dstripbooks&

field-keywords=Redecision+Therapy&

Thank you for your support and guidance.

Good Friends Help Each Other

stay on the path.

Clip: http://www.galleryone.com/images/

Tue, 12 Sep 2006

Feedback

Ed Says: Early TTP in which we use a healing field of acknowledgment to encourage the appearance and disappearance of forms is still an essential part of the work.

You might consider carrying a rock around with you in your pocket. Whenever you find yourself in one of your recurring dramas involving frustration or wanting to smash something, reach for the rock and squeeze your feelings into it. After a few days, you might try putting a label on the rock that characterizes your role in the drama.

Ed, I am following your draft work on the Rocks Process and I wish to give some feedback. I feel that TTP is "evolving" in the right direction as it starts to address issues which are essential to most people.

I think that the rocks technique is great in the sense that it might provide a rough conscious model through which the sender can identify their role and stay there with the key feelings when the dramatic situation arises. I think that you might benefit from your experience with the Incline Village tribe and FAQ and make rough models of the most common dramatic patterns in trading or in life.

The intentional communities can support the sender by creating a "receptive" environment in which the sender feels encouraged to admit and share his/her dramatic situation and talk about what they think their roles are. Then usual TTP follows, i.e., the community encourages the sender to stay there with the key feelings.

I've also always had this idea in my mind: why not evolve FAQ or create a separate forum so that other "qualified" receivers might also participate in answering the questions?

I like your idea of a catalog of dramatic patterns.

Contributors may answer questions and / or point out problems with my answers.

Creating a free-form forum (one without adult supervision)  is generally an exercise in watching a chat room seek its lowest level. 

I am open for ideas on how to distribute TTP on a wider level.  As the work becomes more powerful, I envision some system of certifying Tribe leaders.

"Hi, You sound great.

How old are you

and what to you like doing

after school."

"I am 14

and a bit of a fitness fanatic.

I often go power lifting

after school."

Tue, 12 Sep 2006

Getting Your Rocks Off

The Rocks article looks really good - the rocks help move the model along. I can't read what is written on the illustrating rock. Is is treasure or teaser or what?

I really like the practice of carrying the rock and squeezing the drama feelings into it and bringing the rock to tribe.

It solves the questions I have about how to move tribe members into the hat process.

I think of it as getting some of the rocks out ... of our heads.  At that point we might be able to concentrate on wearing a hats that proclaim our intentions to engage right livelihood.

TTP Model of The Sender

Clip: http://www.spindelvisions.com/